In his post Stephen contends that I may be trapped in a false dilemma: the choice between believing that certain processes are random or believing that they are directed by God. I don’t believe I presented such a false dilemma because I don’t believe such a false choice exist. In fact, I’m in complete agreement with his points on randomness.
While I believe he has misread my post, I can certainly understand why he would make such an assumption. I confess that part of the reason for the confusion was my inclusion of the term random in this section:
The debate over God’s role in evolution is often portrayed as pitting proponents of theistic evolution (Miller, Collins) against advocates of intelligent design (The Discovery Institute, Voltaire). But a more accurate distinction would be between those who believe that evolution is
intelligently directed and those who think the process was “random and undirected” but overseen and/or set in motion by an intelligent agent.
Here I am guilty of equivocation, since the earlier use of the term random was used in its scientific meaning and I was using it (or intended to do so) as referring to an outcome that is undirected (non-teleological) and randomized (independent and uncorrelated) by the intelligent agent.
Still, I don’t think this should led to a complete confusion of my point. What I believe happened is that Stephen thought I was making an argument similar to the one he had deftly responded to in an “On the Square” article titled, “The Design of Evolution.” In that discussion he notes:
The notion of contingency is important in Catholic theology, and it is intimately connected to what in ordinary speech would be called “chance.”
Communion and Stewardship settles this point. “Many neo-Darwinian scientists, as well as some of their critics, have concluded that if evolution is a radically contingent materialistic process driven by natural selection and random genetic variation, then there can be no place in it for divine providential causality,” the document observes. . . .
It is not neo-Darwinists as such that are being criticized here, but only the invalid inference drawn by “many” of them (along with “some of their critics”) that the putative “randomness” of genetic variation necessarily implies an “absolutely unguided” process. It is clearly the intention of this passage to distinguish sharply the actual hypotheses of legitimate science from the philosophical errors often mistakenly thought to follow from them.
Although I believe he may have been lumping me into the “some of their critics” category, this last paragraph shows that Stephen and I are on the same page. indeed, I believe we have made the same argument in different contexts. My criticism is not of all neo-Darwinists and/or theistic evolutionists but only those who believe that the the process is “absolutely unguided.” This may not apply to Francis Collins, and if not then I am sorry that I followed John West in misrepresenting the views of a man I greatly admire. It does, however, apply completely to Kenneth Miller. Unfortunately, just as Richard Dawkins has become the face of the New Atheists, Miller is viewed by many as the unofficial spokesman for the New Theistic Evolutionists.
I believe Stephen and I are in complete agreement. In fact, a remark in his previous article sums up my view on the matter:
I personally am not at all sure that the neo-Darwinian framework is a sufficient one for biology. But if it turns out to be so, it would in no way invalidate what Pope Benedict has said: “We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary.”




June 12th, 2009 | 1:40 pm
[...] Joe Carter and Stephen Barr are having a very interesting debate on Theistic evolutionists – what is random, what is directed by God. Not for skimming, for reading! Film review: Archbishop Chaput gives “The Stoning of Soraya M.” two thumbs up. Sounds like it’s worth seeing. [...]
June 12th, 2009 | 2:18 pm
Maybe I’m too simple-minded to grasp the complexity of the issue, but doesn’t the concept of providence resolve the issue of contingency/design in biology quite neatly? After all, with regard to history, Christians believe that the Roman Empire was ordained by God to provide the setting for the Incarnation (among other reasons perhaps) – while still being the work of Octavian Caesar and other Roman politicians. In the same way, I suppose that life may have emerged by contingent processes while still expressing divine intention. God can make the dice fall as He likes.
Or am I missing something important?
June 13th, 2009 | 3:19 pm
“This may not apply to Francis Collins, and if not then I am sorry that I followed John West in misrepresenting the views of a man I greatly admire.”
In defense of Dr. West, the context in which Collins uses the word “could:”
Francis Collins, _The Language of God_ [Free Press, 2006] p205:
<>
But how could God take such chances? If evolution is random, how could He really be in charge, and how could He be certain of an outcome that included intelligent beings at all?
The solution is actually readily at hand, once one ceases to apply human limitations to God. If God is outside of nature, then He is outside of space and time. In that context, God could in the moment of creation of the universe also know every detail of the future. That could include the formation of the stars, planets, and galaxies, all of the chemistry, physics, geology, and biology that led to the formation of life on earth, and the evolution of humans, right in the moment of your reading this book – and beyond. In that context, evolution could appear to us to be driven by chance, but from God’s perspective the outcome would be entirely specified. Thus, God could be completely and intimately involved in the creation of all species, while from our perspective, limited as it is by the tyranny of finite time, this would appear a random and undirected process.
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[Any typographical errors are mine.]
I greatly admire Dr. Collins too. I also admire Dr. West. Collins’ use of the word “could” is not pertinent to West’s argument, which is that “Francis Collins suggests that God “could” have known the specific outcomes of evolution beforehand even though He made evolution appear “a random and undirected process.” In other words, God is a cosmic trickster who misleads people into thinking that nature is blind and purposeless, even though it isn’t.”
West’s argument seems to me quite fair and worthy of an answer….
June 14th, 2009 | 11:41 pm
Picture this: a Sanhedrin member tells another member, “You won’t believe the luck of that itinerant preacher from Galilee. Yesterday we thought we had him. Told him he was in arrears on his temple tax. He told his sidekick Simon, with a wink, to go fishing. And what do you suppose happened? Simon immediately caught a fish with a coin in his mouth that paid both their tax for the year. Is that a million-to-one shot or what? Where does that guy get his luck?”
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