Comments on: Pelosi: Obama may be Un-American?

By: Stones Cry Out - If they keep silent… » Things Heard: e80v3

Stones Cry Out - If they keep silent… » Things Heard: e80v3 — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:21:47 +0000

[...] Obama/Pelosi Not in tune. [...]

By: Pseudo-Polymath » Blog Archive » Wednesday Evening Highlights

Pseudo-Polymath » Blog Archive » Wednesday Evening Highlights — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 23:21:02 +0000

[...] Obama/Pelosi Not in tune. [...]

By: Jonathan

Jonathan — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 22:40:21 +0000

Marie,

Good points!

By: Marie

Marie — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:14:41 +0000

Jonathan,
I understand, but I think that when you factor in perception, most or at least very large swathes of people believe Obama and Pelosi represent conventional thinking in the U.S. right now. There is a reason they control two, perhaps soon three, branches of the federal government. They hold the advantage, it would be foolish for them to engage in actual discourse if their goal is to win these legislative battles.

As regards whether the President was trying to shut down opposing voices, it seems unlikely that he was asking Democrat representatives who served during previous administrations to remain silent about their support for his new programs. This statement was very eloquent, very clever tactical rhetoric. Much more effective than drowning out or shouting down opposition.

By: Jim G

Jim G — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:27:04 +0000

To be fair, Mr. Obama referred to “folks who created the mess.” He did not refer to “folks with opposing views.” Based on the linked video clip, the only person equating the two is the author of this First Things entry, which is unfortunate, as the mess in question has been a bipartisan mess since the very beginning, with plenty of folks on both sides of the aisle to blame for it.

Perhaps the intent on the president’s part *was* to equate the two, but this particular clip failed to show that intent. And since it failed to show that intent, it failed to show that Mr. Obama is “un-American.”

And believe me, I have no desire to be the man’s apologist, but I also have no desire to sit back and let unfair attacks go unchallenged, regardless of the political affiliation of the target.

By: Ken

Ken — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:30:05 +0000

I think there’s an enormous ethical difference between being frustrated at not getting something done and saying “you guy’s messed this up, so let us fix it” — which doesn’t actually silence anyone — and literally shouting people down so that they can’t speak.

By: Jonathan

Jonathan — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:37:01 +0000

Marie,

What’s interesting here is that President Obama, Speaker Pelosi, et al do not hold “conventional views” with regard to the legislation in question, and recent polls suggest that they are far from having “everybody thinking [they]‘re in the right.” They are able to respond in the way that they have been responding because their party has the presidency and a majority in both houses.

By: Marie

Marie — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:04:18 +0000

I’ve consistently found that in discussing politics and religion and culture, it takes about three minutes before those who hold the conventional views on these subjects turn away from arguing points and turn to rhetorical strategies to shut the opposition up. It makes sense. You have just about everybody thinking you’re in the right, the best way to keep your strength up is to not let the audience hear anything that contradicts the assumptions it holds. Personal attacks, straw men arguments, “you hurt my feelings” or “you’re not a team player” lines of discourse all work well. When the aim is to win instead of to find the truth, the perfectly reasonable plan is not to make a superior argument but to make sure you’re the only one allowed to make an argument at all.

By: caite

caite — Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:53:37 +0000

I hope the two of them actually read the comments on their USAToday articles, because it seems we… better known as the mob, the Nazis…don’t believe a word they say.

You know what they say. You can tell when they are lying when their lips move.

By: We have to face the fact that the President is not an honest guy « Jim Blazsik

Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:09:58 +0000

[...] Pelosi: Obama may be Un-American? – Francis Beckwith [...]