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	<title>Comments on: Health Care, Rights, and the Limits of Goldhill&#8217;s Imagination</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2009/08/28/health-care-rights-and-the-limits-of-goldhills-imagination/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2009/08/28/health-care-rights-and-the-limits-of-goldhills-imagination/comment-page-1/#comment-2440</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=7025#comment-2440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As much as anything, the emphasis on the individual (instead of the community) has weakened these social structures.  The stress on individual responsibility is a conservative value that has contributed to this erosion of family/social/community that limits our ability to collectively address a social problem.

The bottom line is that we&#039;re not in this together.  We are atomistic consumers who only care about our own welfare and those we know, provided they are not living perfidious, irresponsible lives.  Goldhill&#039;s solution makes sense in the absence of a widely-shared sense of the General Welfare but a collective response to a collective problem would be better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As much as anything, the emphasis on the individual (instead of the community) has weakened these social structures.  The stress on individual responsibility is a conservative value that has contributed to this erosion of family/social/community that limits our ability to collectively address a social problem.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that we&#8217;re not in this together.  We are atomistic consumers who only care about our own welfare and those we know, provided they are not living perfidious, irresponsible lives.  Goldhill&#8217;s solution makes sense in the absence of a widely-shared sense of the General Welfare but a collective response to a collective problem would be better.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2009/08/28/health-care-rights-and-the-limits-of-goldhills-imagination/comment-page-1/#comment-2393</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=7025#comment-2393</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;This answer is limited by the dissolution of social structures surrounding the family and the church.&quot;

Yes, and what is possible in the here and now is also limited by the dissolution of such structures. And given that politics is the art of the possible, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This answer is limited by the dissolution of social structures surrounding the family and the church.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, and what is possible in the here and now is also limited by the dissolution of such structures. And given that politics is the art of the possible, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2009/08/28/health-care-rights-and-the-limits-of-goldhills-imagination/comment-page-1/#comment-2392</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=7025#comment-2392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A technical point:  Goldhill&#039;s proposal allows the spending of those funds that exceed the government-required level for a person&#039;s age group on whatever but that would not be a problem for those poor enough to receive government funds, who could never actually pass the ceiling amount if they are unable to contribute.

Maybe I overlooked it but where exactly does charity come into play in Goldhill&#039;s proposal?  If &#039;the poor&#039; are not able to spend the government money in their HSA&#039;s, why would they be more likely to need charitable contributions from family and the church?  So many people are bankrupted by medical expenses already.

If health is considered a right, would not the designation of it as a &#039;human right&#039; be pre-political?

The guarantee of a certain amount of funds to spend on health care is not the same as ensuring a certain standard of health care so it conflicts with the idea that it is a right.  A consumer-centric approach to health care reform is marred by the assymetry of information that exists between the providers and consumers of modern specialized medicine.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A technical point:  Goldhill&#8217;s proposal allows the spending of those funds that exceed the government-required level for a person&#8217;s age group on whatever but that would not be a problem for those poor enough to receive government funds, who could never actually pass the ceiling amount if they are unable to contribute.</p>
<p>Maybe I overlooked it but where exactly does charity come into play in Goldhill&#8217;s proposal?  If &#8216;the poor&#8217; are not able to spend the government money in their HSA&#8217;s, why would they be more likely to need charitable contributions from family and the church?  So many people are bankrupted by medical expenses already.</p>
<p>If health is considered a right, would not the designation of it as a &#8216;human right&#8217; be pre-political?</p>
<p>The guarantee of a certain amount of funds to spend on health care is not the same as ensuring a certain standard of health care so it conflicts with the idea that it is a right.  A consumer-centric approach to health care reform is marred by the assymetry of information that exists between the providers and consumers of modern specialized medicine.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2009/08/28/health-care-rights-and-the-limits-of-goldhills-imagination/comment-page-1/#comment-2344</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=7025#comment-2344</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[EXCELLENT! - makes an important distinction:

&quot;...It is also limited by its ultimate dependence upon the concept of rights. The assistance of the poor and disadvantaged by the church and by extended communities IS A PRE-POLITICAL SOLUTION to health care reform, a solution that situates our health in the complex web of human relationships. And as such, it is a solution that can not be implemented as long as the language of rights remains the dominant framework for our discourse about health care. Despite its long Christian heritage, the notion of rights has been stripped of its pre-political meanings and has been reduced to signify that which exists only in a political context. For this reason, the question of whether health care is a right can only be answered in terms of the government’s involvement or lack of involvement in it.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EXCELLENT! &#8211; makes an important distinction:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;It is also limited by its ultimate dependence upon the concept of rights. The assistance of the poor and disadvantaged by the church and by extended communities IS A PRE-POLITICAL SOLUTION to health care reform, a solution that situates our health in the complex web of human relationships. And as such, it is a solution that can not be implemented as long as the language of rights remains the dominant framework for our discourse about health care. Despite its long Christian heritage, the notion of rights has been stripped of its pre-political meanings and has been reduced to signify that which exists only in a political context. For this reason, the question of whether health care is a right can only be answered in terms of the government’s involvement or lack of involvement in it.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: The Limits of Imagination: Health Care at First Things &#124; Mere Orthodoxy</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2009/08/28/health-care-rights-and-the-limits-of-goldhills-imagination/comment-page-1/#comment-2343</link>
		<dc:creator>The Limits of Imagination: Health Care at First Things &#124; Mere Orthodoxy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=7025#comment-2343</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] how the article begins, which you can read at First Things, where I am honored to be an occasional contributor to their blog First Thoughts.  Also, [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] how the article begins, which you can read at First Things, where I am honored to be an occasional contributor to their blog First Thoughts.  Also, [...]</p>
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