Comments on: Justice and the Pacifist Continent

By: Chris

Chris — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:21:15 +0000

As someone who straddles the line between pacifism and not, I find it interesting (and disheartening) that those who oppose pacifism (some of whom find its having adherents disheartening) feel that the burden is somehow on pacifists to justify their pacifism, giving all kinds of real world examples that make pacifism seem onerous. But the Lord God, in human form, specifically asked that we turn the other cheek and allowed Himself to be killed rather than fight against those unjustly persecuting Him; there seems to be an extraordinarily strong prime facie case for pacifism that I have yet to see an opponent of pacifism deal with adequately. Tossing out real world examples is nice, I suppose, but it doesn’t really compare to the Word of Christ. I’d love to see someone take Christ seriously on this point and come up with a coherent argument against pacifism, but until I do, I think I shall remain on the fence, regularly leaning towards pacifism. Given the relatively clear facial meaning of Christ’s words, the burden must remain on the anti-pacifists to justify their stance from a Christian perspective.

There is a profound argument to be made that the worst thing to happen in Church history was the militarism that entered Christianity through Constantine; it fundamentally changed the rules of the game without ever really dealing with Christ’s call to love your enemies and turn the other cheek.

By: Ars Artium

Ars Artium — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:11:05 +0000

“Remember Jesus Christ what he did to the jews in the temple,hekicked them out.right?” from the recent post by “Paul Henry Dallaire”. Jesus expelled certain Jewish people from the temple because they were engaging in commercial activity; they were “moneychangers”. If he had expelled all the faithful Jewish people who were there, he would have had to expel himself as well, since of course he was an observant Jew. That is the reason he was in attendance at the temple. “Give unto Caesar” was one-half of an admonition to pay one’s taxes while not offering man the worship due to God.

By: Paul Henry Dallaire

Paul Henry Dallaire — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:00:16 +0000

War is just another way of keeping the rich in control of the money market. However we need laws and it takes money to make laws so you go to school become a lawyer (Liar) and you are licenced to take money from the poor. Money is the root of all evil.
Remember Jesus Christ what he did to the jews in the temple,he kicked them out. right?.
Then he said from the other side of his mouth “Give to Ceasar what belongs to him saying it’s okay to rob the poor No?

By: Ars Artium

Ars Artium — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:48:04 +0000

If a commitment to pacifism is to be respected, those holding this view must hold that they desire not to be rescued should they find themselves under attack from persons with evil intent. They must be able to truthfully state that, should their children be in danger from those who wish them harm, they should not and would not physically resist. They must support the idea that persons who are held in bondage by a tyrannical government must be left in that bondage if all attempts at civil discussion and negotiation fail. Persons who believe all this must be respected as having the courage of their convictions. The danger is that one might believe these things only when other people are the victims of human cruelty and aggression. We must at least consider the testimony of a person who survived the death camps of World War II: “The most beautiful music I ever heard was the sound of United States troops approaching the concentration camp where I was being held.” A committed pacifist must be willing to desire that the only “music” he would want to hear in such a situation is silence.

By: Dan Kennedy

Dan Kennedy — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:58:01 +0000

Interesting information. I wonder how many Muslims were included in the survey. I confess a certain amount of skepticism with the data. The cultural dynamics on the ground are probably more fluid than appears by this data.

I think an interesting question to Europeans might be: Would you be willing to fight a war to save the United States?

By: Jesse

Jesse — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:20:39 +0000

I just find it facinating that we worship a God who, when he came to earth in human form, never practiced self defense or violence, and yet we insult pacifists.

By: Steve

Steve — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:06:59 +0000

I am somewhat confused as to why this situation is inherently ‘bleak’. Is pacifism considered prima facie objectionable for some reason? I get the feeling that, along with many interesting and sensible posts, this blog very often reverts to some sort of commonly-assumed neo-conservative political dogma which is never explained or justified.

By: Jerry

Jerry — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:17:22 +0000

Maybe it has something to do with the American military umbrella (which some folks may call an occupation) over much of Europe. If you are worried by an incipient pacifist movement in Europe, one way to cure that /and/ save our country some money would be pull at least some of our troops out of Europe.

By: Jim

Jim — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:05:31 +0000

The question as stated, is too nebulous to really mean anything. I’m sure that there are people on both sides of the Atlantic who, though in accord completely on a concrete, practical level, would answer differently in so far as the question allows them to project how they see themselves.

By: Charlie Collier

Charlie Collier — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:17:21 +0000

So let me get this straight. Europe’s problem is that it lacks the appropriate culture of death. Fascinating.