Comments on: Minnesota Apparently an Injustice-Free Zone

By: Buttercup

Buttercup — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 01:39:51 +0000

Steve: Pawlenty doesn’t state that he would never give clemency and so far, I’m not aware of a case in Minnesota where stealing bread got someone a 100 year sentence. I think Carter would be better playing that argument if Pawlenty had said he would never give clemency to any one at any time.

As far as the sad story you link to, I have not read the whole thing, yet. I did see that it was stated that a board in Texas had voted against clemency, not just the governor acting alone. The mother of the children also was convinced of the father’s guilt after reviewing the evidence for and against it. Obviously, that does not excuse the state executing an innocent man, if this was the case.

By: Steve

Steve — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 00:32:19 +0000

Buttercup67k,

I don’t think that Joe Carter ever condoned any of Gov. Huckabee’s clemency decisions; it seems that he was only pointing out an instance in which clemency would make sense, contra Gov. Pawlenty’s stance.

Also, I wonder what Gov. Perry of Texas is quite probably guilty of as far as justice is concerned – sloth, perhaps? Negligent homicide? http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann

I do hope that he never gets elected to public office again.

By: Michael Currie

Michael Currie — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:28:38 +0000

Since there is a dearth of information regarding certain particulars, i.e. how many that received commutation later committed serious crimes which would better help us to judge Huckabees judgement,it would seem that we are reduced to arguing over the principle of commutation and the proper criteria for its application.I think that all states have a provision for commutation(although I don’t know this) so it must be that the principle is widely accepted which leaves us with the criteria of application as a topic of dispute.No matter how simple or complicated this procedure might be at some point a person must make a decision based(we hope) on the information before him and his own qualities of discernment. At this point, armed as we are with our outrage at a known outcome, we are ready to pass judgement on Huckabees judgement. What is our criteria.What would be an acceptable rate of failure and at what level of crime. This we claim to know; if this was the only failure it would be one to many. So for the moment the answer to what an acceptable rate of failure is is zero. Gov. Pawlenty is right if this is what we demand but barring disclosure of outrageous behavior on Gov. Huckabees part (doubtful) or a quickening of this kind of brutal crime we are left with the unsettling idea that sometimes the difference between the right decision and the wrong one is razor thin. My impression of Gov. Huckabee is of a man for whom justice and compassion form, this side of heaven, an imperfect and necessary union. Too much of either is hell on earth.

By: Buttercup67k

Buttercup67k — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:07:59 +0000

Mr. Carter: The number of clemency cases that crossed Huckabee’s desk can also be presumed the other way: If Huckabee is granting clemency at a much higher rate than other governors than it makes sense for lots more people to apply for clemency, whether they deserve it or not.

Also, you make a false analogy about stealing bread and receiving a 100 years. Stealing bread is a non-violent crime; what upsets people about Huckabee’s grants of clemency is the violent criminals whose sentences he was commuting. Stealing bread and rape and/or murder are apples and oranges.

By: Brandon

Brandon — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 13:42:38 +0000

The purpose of executive power of pardon is not merely to catch miscarriages of justice but also to take into account extenuating circumstances that are not actually written into law because they are very rare or couldn’t be foreseen; so not only is the Minnesota court system infallible, its legislature must be omniscient, having taken every possible circumstance into account.

By: Joe Carter

Joe Carter — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 07:29:59 +0000

Pat This must be an overstatement – no one person could properly review this many cases and do anything else.

True, but its not the governor’s job to review every single one, only the one’s that have been flagged as worthy of his consideration.

There is already someone in MN that is tasked with this pre-screening role. But let’s assume there wasn’t. What would it require?

In 2009 there are 250 work days. If there are 1200 cases to reviews that comes to an average of 5 cases a day. One person could easily do that job all by themselves (though since its the government, no doubt they have a dozen people doing the task).

By: Pat

Pat — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 07:14:28 +0000

“What are the odds that 0 of those 8400 were deserving? I don’t know. But I’d sure be curious if Pawlenty seriously reviewed each one and rejected them for lacking merit”

This must be an overstatement – no one person could properly review this many cases and do anything else. If you are right, the problem isn’t that no appeal is deserving, the problem is a practical one – how does one seriously review each one and leave time for everything else?

(The question is not merely rhetorical – I am actually curious to how, if at all, this works.)

By: MargaretMN

MargaretMN — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:23:49 +0000

Meh. Anybody who knows anything about MN, knows that the problem is not sentences that are too harsh, but sentences that are too light. We don’t have the murder rate that other places have (There have only been 19 murders this year in Minneapolis, the major city in the state, thus far). Also, we don’t have the death penalty. Pawlenty did spend a considerable amount of time and resources developing a policy for Level III sex offenders so it’s not like he hasn’t taken an interest in criminal justice.

By: Joe Carter

Joe Carter — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 04:58:35 +0000

John Does this indicate he would never vote for clemency, or simply, as the citation states, that he has never voted for clemency?

Let’s look at what he said: “But clemency, certainly not. Commutation of sentence, certainly not.”

The phrase “certainly not” seems rather declarative to me. Pawlenty seems to be saying that he neither has nor will grant clemency or commutation.

I know miscarriages of justice take place, but I am not aware of the frequency with which they occur, either in Minnesota or in other states.

During the time Huckabee was governor he had an average of 1200 applications a year. AK is smaller than MN, but let’s assume the rate is the same. Pawlenty has been governor for seven years so we can expect that about 8400 applications to have been submitted for his review.

What are the odds that 0 of those 8400 were deserving? I don’t know. But I’d sure be curious if Pawlenty seriously reviewed each one and rejected them for lacking merit or if he simply rejected them because he doesn’t believe in exercising the responsibility.

By: John W. Martens

John W. Martens — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 04:25:41 +0000

I did not hear the program with Governor Pawlenty, so perhaps I am missing both relevant information and the tone in which he made his comments, but you cite him saying “In Minnesota, I don’t think I’ve ever voted for clemency.” Does this indicate he would never vote for clemency, or simply, as the citation states, that he has never voted for clemency? Is it possible that a case has never crossed his desk worthy, at least to his mind, of clemency? I know miscarriages of justice take place, but I am not aware of the frequency with which they occur, either in Minnesota or in other states. Your reading, that Pawlenty’s comments indicate that “the the criminal justice system in Minnesota is so perfect that clemency and commutation are never, ever needed,” seems an interpretation based on suspicion and not goodwill. I will, however, overturn my comment if new evidence comes to light. To this point, though, I have never overturned a comment I have made on this website.