Comments on: On the Shameful “Murders at Gitmo” Conspiracy (Part IV)

By: Sanpete

Sanpete — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 06:52:36 +0000

That they were able to commit suicide at all shows that something definitely went wrong. Joe’s never suggested otherwise. Sullivan’s reasoning on that point isn’t so great either, is it?

By: Baldie McEagle

Baldie McEagle — Sun, 31 Jan 2010 02:47:22 +0000

Joe, you say “Rather than address the rebuttal in my last post, Andrew Sullivan has decided to take a different path in our debate over the Guantanamo Bay suicides:

Joe Carter remains sure that nothing wrong could have happened at Gitmo when three prisoners somehow committed a triple suicide, with their bodies hanging for two hours until guards (whose SOP was to check on each prisoner every ten minutes) discovered them.

Is Sullivan now admitting that the bodies were found in the prison cells? If so, is he finally ready to admit that the testimony of the four Guardsmen in the Harper’s story is bogus?”

This is enough to demonstrate that you simply have no idea how to reason. Sullivan was not admitting that the official story is true. He was pointing out that you don’t seem to believe it yourself: if prisoners were able to hang for 2 hours, then something definitely went wrong.

You can’t have it both ways, Joe.

By: How not to explain the Guantanamo suicides « jdelrosso

How not to explain the Guantanamo suicides « jdelrosso — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 02:09:11 +0000

[...] at Guantanamo. In debunking Horton, Shafer points to writing by Joe Carter, who, in four parts, likewise gnawed away at Horton’s piece. The most damning evidence that Carter provides comes directly from the official investigation; in [...]

By: Sanpete

Sanpete — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:28:10 +0000

Apparently the Pentagon maintains that the rag found in the throat of one detainee was inhaled during asphyxiation. This article at this link has supplemented previous Pentagon comments with new material:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=35388

An unnamed source told the author that the neck bones haven’t been requested by the families since the investigation ended in 2008.

By: Sanpete

Sanpete — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:07:10 +0000

Larry, as far as I can tell, the NCIS report was quite poor in dealing with the question you raise. Horton is even worse, in that he disingenuously makes it appear impossible by pretending that it had to be done in an irrational order. Someone more interested in the truth would reason that the men might have climbed up on the sink, put the noose up, one then bound his feet, they bound their hands loosely (according to some testimony the binding was not tight), they stuffed the rags in their mouths and wrapped cloth around their heads to hold the rags in, and then hung themselves. At least two of the men had fabric around their torsos that might have served to hold the pieces of cloth as they prepared themselves.

The fact that the rags were found in the back of the mouth is troubling, as it would induce choking prematurely if they were too far back. This fact should have been directly addressed in the investigation.

The reason for the rags and other bindings may have been to prevent crying out and trying to escape the noose or climb back up on the sink after hanging.

It’s troubling to me that, it appears, the NCIS didn’t make any effort to show how this could have been done. It was highly suspicious and should have been fully investigated, even recreated. (I can see no valid reason the results of any investigation into this would have been redacted.) But it’s not as outlandish as Horton would have you think.

As for the witnesses, it would have been sheer stupidity for the NCIS and other investigators including the FBI to just make up testimony and people to testify to it. That would be easily discovered. The testimony shows every sign of being quite real.

By: Larry from Michigan

Larry from Michigan — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 07:18:31 +0000

Clicked through to your series from Shafer’s article. I suppose Horton makes some assertions that are not fully supported, but you do some of that yourself! Frankly I put more faith in the testimony of four named people than 50 anonymous ones who may or may not exist. Also you don’t mention the most damning fact, which is that the NCIS report itself states that (paraphasing Horton) “Each prisoner was able somehow to bind his own hands, and, in at least one case, his own feet, then stuff more rags deep down into his own throat. We are then asked to believe that each prisoner, even as he was choking on those rags, climbed up on his washbasin, slipped his head through the noose, tightened it, and leapt from the washbasin to hang until he asphyxiated.” I don’t buy it. Coverups do happen, you know!

By: Sanpete

Sanpete — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 00:53:37 +0000

Jack Shafer at Slate has thanked you for your work on this in a salvo against Horton’s article:

http://www.slate.com/id/2242942/

Interest in Horton’s article seems to have died down quite a bit over the last few days, as it probably should unless some more solid investigative work (by journalists) reveals more solid evidence.

By: DMJ

DMJ — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 18:10:20 +0000

Nice work, Joe. Sullivan is out of his daggone mind, and it’s good to see someone call him out on his outrageous and insulting claims.

By: Tim Sumner

Tim Sumner — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:33:18 +0000

You have done yeoman’s work, Mr. Carter. Thank you!