Comments on: Beinart’s Eulogy for Liberal Judaism

By: American Jews less Jewish? Does it matter? | WeDuggIt

American Jews less Jewish? Does it matter? | WeDuggIt — Fri, 28 May 2010 22:14:08 +0000

[...] Douthat cites David Goldman's First Things reply to Beinart: Beinart offers a condescending glance at the "warmth" and "learning" of Orthodox Jews, but [...]

By: harlan

harlan — Fri, 28 May 2010 14:10:44 +0000

Mr. Goldman notes that he is “sure that the great majority of Orthodox rabbis in the US support” the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
I would agree that this is the case with regard to Modern Orthodox rabbis, but no so when it comes to the haredi (Ultra-Orthodox)
community, which is known – documented!- for
its racism.

By: shoshanna

shoshanna — Thu, 27 May 2010 17:29:51 +0000

Mr. Goldman:

Nice save, but you did not explain why you excised my original postings on this topic.

Also: you claim that “Vayikra 19:33 makes clear that strangers must be treated under the same laws as Jews.” There were no ‘Jews’ at the time of the Pentateuch, only Israelites.

And there is distinctive anti-Gentile legislation in the Talmud, so clearly those sages had no problem
ignoring – i.e., redefing the applicability of – Vayika 19:33.

By: David Goldman

David Goldman — Wed, 26 May 2010 19:31:54 +0000

Jonah g., please re-read my post: the global trade including slaves also included the forced sale of opium to China and other atrocities. I would teach the whole picture of world trade in the 18th and 19th centuries in order to call attention not only to slavery but to other evils.

By: David Goldman

David Goldman — Wed, 26 May 2010 19:30:20 +0000

Shoshanna, the Torah she’Baal Peh including the rulings of Hazal is a living instrument; responsa reflecting the position of Jewish communities living under oppressive conditions in the Diaspora cannot be applied to the United States of America mechanically. Vayikra 19:33 makes clear that strangers must be treated under the same laws as Jews and constitutes the first anti-discrimination law in history (a point that Joseph Hertz makes eloquently in his Chumash commentary). Contrary to Rand Paul I support the Civil Rights Act in its entirely and I am sure that the great majority of Orthodox rabbis in the US support it as well.

By: shoshanna

shoshanna — Wed, 26 May 2010 16:53:49 +0000

A thread entry highlighting Rand Paul’s endorsement of the right of individuals and businesses to discriminate and similar views in the Talmud (regarding relations between Jews and Gentiles) – views which are incumbent upon you, Mr. Goldman, as an Orthodox Jew – has been posted as a comment on a different blog.
So much for your attempt at censorship!
Be sure to add GENAIVAS DA’AS to the litany of sins for which you will have to seek forgiveness during the upcoming High Holy Days, in September.

By: jonah g.

jonah g. — Tue, 25 May 2010 14:50:11 +0000

Check your facts:
the slave trade WAS the Atlantic triangular trade, not something “along with” it!

from the Washington POST’s Valerie Strauss’ AnswerSheet blog:
“…calling the U.S. slave trade the “Atlantic triangular trade.” That refers to the trade system among the American colonies, Europe and Africa, which, if connected on a map, certainly forms a triangle. The proposal is correct on the geometric merits.
On historical and moral merits, however, it fails miserably. Trying to whitewash the country’s ugly past is itself ugly and dangerous.
Even Rod Paige, whom President George W. Bush picked to be the first African American education secretary, pleaded, to no avail, with the Texas school board not to approve such alterations.”

—–

By: David Goldman

David Goldman — Sun, 23 May 2010 21:36:43 +0000

Mr Ryan,
Wasn’t me. I don’t call into radio shows. There was a triangular Atlantic trade, though, and I suppose it deserves mention along with the slave trade. It also might be mentioned that the cotton produced by American slaves became textiles in Manchester exported to Bengal, which ruined the hand-weaving industry. The British set the Bengalis to growing opium and made the Chinese buy it.

By: t.j. ryan

t.j. ryan — Sun, 23 May 2010 17:38:24 +0000

I can’t address your critique of Beinart, but I must commend you for your courage – as exemplified by the call in to a Dallas talk show by one “David Goldman”- in supporting the new Texas state school board social studies standards, especially the replacement of “slave trade” by “Atlantic triangular trade”.

You are a fine Christian gentleman!

By: Peter Beinart Writes An Article « Around The Sphere

Peter Beinart Writes An Article « Around The Sphere — Fri, 21 May 2010 21:27:48 +0000

[...] David Goldman at First Things: Liberalism assumes that clever and and enlightened people can engineer happy outcomes for everyone. The notion that some peoples fail of their own deficiencies is anathema to liberalism, whose premise is that enlightened intervention can solve all the problems of any society. That is what Jewish college students are taught. [...]