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	<title>Comments on: Rabbinical Council of America Offers &#8220;Undiluted Blessing&#8221; for Israel&#8217;s Decision on Conversion Law</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/07/19/rabbinical-council-of-america-offers-undiluted-blessing-for-israels-decision-on-conversion-law/</link>
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		<title>By: David Goldman</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/07/19/rabbinical-council-of-america-offers-undiluted-blessing-for-israels-decision-on-conversion-law/comment-page-1/#comment-19988</link>
		<dc:creator>David Goldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=18706#comment-19988</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Are Orthodox standards of conversion a reaction to Christian and Muslim oppression of the past? I doubt it. A better explanation is that in the days of Ruth, &quot;conversion&quot; was an all-in decision: if you let Moab, family, clan, tribe, and country, you did not go back; you became part of another family, clan and tribe. One also has to be careful in considering &quot;prosleytes&quot; vs. &quot;converts&quot; at the of Hillel. Gentiles were permitted to sacrifice a bull at the Temple duriing Sukkot, for example, and a sort of association with Israel was encouraged. But that was then. In the modern world, where religion is a consumer good and people can shop for faith, one can change religions as often as one changes toothpaste. The freedom of the modern world thus raises an entirely different sort of problem: the inner sincerity of the convert. And that requires appropriate standards. There is considerable disagreement in the Orthodox world about what they should be, and there seems to me to be no alternative to a case-by-case approach.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are Orthodox standards of conversion a reaction to Christian and Muslim oppression of the past? I doubt it. A better explanation is that in the days of Ruth, &#8220;conversion&#8221; was an all-in decision: if you let Moab, family, clan, tribe, and country, you did not go back; you became part of another family, clan and tribe. One also has to be careful in considering &#8220;prosleytes&#8221; vs. &#8220;converts&#8221; at the of Hillel. Gentiles were permitted to sacrifice a bull at the Temple duriing Sukkot, for example, and a sort of association with Israel was encouraged. But that was then. In the modern world, where religion is a consumer good and people can shop for faith, one can change religions as often as one changes toothpaste. The freedom of the modern world thus raises an entirely different sort of problem: the inner sincerity of the convert. And that requires appropriate standards. There is considerable disagreement in the Orthodox world about what they should be, and there seems to me to be no alternative to a case-by-case approach.</p>
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		<title>By: Judy K. Warner</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/07/19/rabbinical-council-of-america-offers-undiluted-blessing-for-israels-decision-on-conversion-law/comment-page-1/#comment-19731</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy K. Warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=18706#comment-19731</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks. I don&#039;t have any information on how many of the Russian immigrants have converted, or if they have to. A cousin of mine in Israel married a Russian girl and she had to convert in order to have a Jewish wedding. Their families are secular. She didn&#039;t become orthodox, but the conversion process did give her a great knowledge of an appreciation for Judaism, and she and her husband are more observant than the rest of the family. I worry that the secular Jews are gradually through the generations losing any religious feeling, and an influx of conversions of Russians would be great. (I don&#039;t think God likes Jews to ignore him either.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks. I don&#8217;t have any information on how many of the Russian immigrants have converted, or if they have to. A cousin of mine in Israel married a Russian girl and she had to convert in order to have a Jewish wedding. Their families are secular. She didn&#8217;t become orthodox, but the conversion process did give her a great knowledge of an appreciation for Judaism, and she and her husband are more observant than the rest of the family. I worry that the secular Jews are gradually through the generations losing any religious feeling, and an influx of conversions of Russians would be great. (I don&#8217;t think God likes Jews to ignore him either.)</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart Koehl</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/07/19/rabbinical-council-of-america-offers-undiluted-blessing-for-israels-decision-on-conversion-law/comment-page-1/#comment-19729</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Koehl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=18706#comment-19729</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jews used not to be so punctillious, and Judaism once was an aggressively proselytizing religion.  In the Hasmonean era, the Jewish kingdom annexed Idumea and converted all of its population to Judaism, including a talented guy named Antipater, whose son Herod went far.  Something similar happened when the Galilee was annexed.

Throughout the intertestimental period, and up to the middle of the third or fourth century, Jews actively sought out converts--which put them on a collision course with the rival synagogue of the Christians.  Most of the patristic broadsides against &quot;Judaizing&quot; (e.g., that of John Chrysostom) can best be understood in that context.  Even the crushing defeat of Bar Kochba&#039;s rebellion (AD 135), which ended Jewish apocalyptic pretensions, did not end Jewish proselytization.  As late as the 8th century, the Turkic Khazars adopted Judaism en masse, and were accepted as Jews by the rabbinate in Persia, the Middle East and Europe.

The exclusivist, or at least highly restrictionist attitude of modern orthodox Judaism is probably a reaction to the Christian and Muslim oppression of the Jews from the Middle Ages onward.  With the conversion of both Christians and Muslims a legal offense with highly adverse effects for the Jewish community as a whole, it was natural for the rabbinate to make conversion as difficult as possible, if not outright impossible.  The advent of religious liberty in the post-Enlightenment West created new opportunities to attract converts (the up-side of intermarriage), but in the Middle East, conversion remains a politically and socially charged issue.

Modern Jews will have trouble addressing the conversion issue effectively until they are willing to examine their entire history, to understand how their present attitudes evolved, and whether they have a real Talmudic basis, or were merely a transient response to historical conditions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jews used not to be so punctillious, and Judaism once was an aggressively proselytizing religion.  In the Hasmonean era, the Jewish kingdom annexed Idumea and converted all of its population to Judaism, including a talented guy named Antipater, whose son Herod went far.  Something similar happened when the Galilee was annexed.</p>
<p>Throughout the intertestimental period, and up to the middle of the third or fourth century, Jews actively sought out converts&#8211;which put them on a collision course with the rival synagogue of the Christians.  Most of the patristic broadsides against &#8220;Judaizing&#8221; (e.g., that of John Chrysostom) can best be understood in that context.  Even the crushing defeat of Bar Kochba&#8217;s rebellion (AD 135), which ended Jewish apocalyptic pretensions, did not end Jewish proselytization.  As late as the 8th century, the Turkic Khazars adopted Judaism en masse, and were accepted as Jews by the rabbinate in Persia, the Middle East and Europe.</p>
<p>The exclusivist, or at least highly restrictionist attitude of modern orthodox Judaism is probably a reaction to the Christian and Muslim oppression of the Jews from the Middle Ages onward.  With the conversion of both Christians and Muslims a legal offense with highly adverse effects for the Jewish community as a whole, it was natural for the rabbinate to make conversion as difficult as possible, if not outright impossible.  The advent of religious liberty in the post-Enlightenment West created new opportunities to attract converts (the up-side of intermarriage), but in the Middle East, conversion remains a politically and socially charged issue.</p>
<p>Modern Jews will have trouble addressing the conversion issue effectively until they are willing to examine their entire history, to understand how their present attitudes evolved, and whether they have a real Talmudic basis, or were merely a transient response to historical conditions.</p>
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		<title>By: David Goldman</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/07/19/rabbinical-council-of-america-offers-undiluted-blessing-for-israels-decision-on-conversion-law/comment-page-1/#comment-19694</link>
		<dc:creator>David Goldman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=18706#comment-19694</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The issue is complex, but in a nutshell the proposed legislation would take conversion out of the hands of &quot;special conversion courts&quot; in each locality, often dominated by ultra-Orthodox rabbis, and centralize the process with the Chief Rabbinate, which includes Modern Orthodox and religious-zionist (as opposed to ultra-Orthodox rabbis). It is de facto a liberalization of the conversion process, but within the Orthodox world; the Reform and Conservative wings of American Judaism, which have only a negligible presence in Israel, feel left out. That is understandable, but Israeli Judaism is overwhelmingly Orthodox, and it makes sense for Israelis to employ their own standards.
There have been many news reports, including this one:
http://www.jstandard.com/content/item/rotem_conversion_law_in_israel_is_under_debate/13198]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue is complex, but in a nutshell the proposed legislation would take conversion out of the hands of &#8220;special conversion courts&#8221; in each locality, often dominated by ultra-Orthodox rabbis, and centralize the process with the Chief Rabbinate, which includes Modern Orthodox and religious-zionist (as opposed to ultra-Orthodox rabbis). It is de facto a liberalization of the conversion process, but within the Orthodox world; the Reform and Conservative wings of American Judaism, which have only a negligible presence in Israel, feel left out. That is understandable, but Israeli Judaism is overwhelmingly Orthodox, and it makes sense for Israelis to employ their own standards.<br />
There have been many news reports, including this one:<br />
<a href="http://www.jstandard.com/content/item/rotem_conversion_law_in_israel_is_under_debate/13198" rel="nofollow">http://www.jstandard.com/content/item/rotem_conversion_law_in_israel_is_under_debate/13198</a></p>
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		<title>By: Judy K. Warner</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/07/19/rabbinical-council-of-america-offers-undiluted-blessing-for-israels-decision-on-conversion-law/comment-page-1/#comment-19690</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy K. Warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=18706#comment-19690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What is the change in the law? Could you give us a hint? All I got out of this is that there will be more conversion courts and judges. Is the conversion process different? Are the criteria for Jewishness different?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the change in the law? Could you give us a hint? All I got out of this is that there will be more conversion courts and judges. Is the conversion process different? Are the criteria for Jewishness different?</p>
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