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	<title>Comments on: The Real John Henry Newman</title>
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		<title>By: Robert Sheaf</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/09/20/the-real-john-henry-newman/comment-page-1/#comment-25034</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Sheaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Sep 2010 14:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I have read the previous comments with interest.

In assessing what special message Blessed John Henry has for us today we need to ask three questions:

- What do we mean by &#039;liberalism&#039;, and what   did he mean by it?

- How much did he support the status quo
  vis-a-vis the official structure of the Church 
  and its teaching?

- In considering what might be done to give 
  the Church  a  more comfortable image   
  while remaining true to its roots, what      concessions did he think could be made in the cause of winning souls and of Christian unity.

It doesnt seem to me that in our current discussions about Blessed John Henry these questions are
being adequately addressed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read the previous comments with interest.</p>
<p>In assessing what special message Blessed John Henry has for us today we need to ask three questions:</p>
<p>- What do we mean by &#8216;liberalism&#8217;, and what   did he mean by it?</p>
<p>- How much did he support the status quo<br />
  vis-a-vis the official structure of the Church<br />
  and its teaching?</p>
<p>- In considering what might be done to give<br />
  the Church  a  more comfortable image<br />
  while remaining true to its roots, what      concessions did he think could be made in the cause of winning souls and of Christian unity.</p>
<p>It doesnt seem to me that in our current discussions about Blessed John Henry these questions are<br />
being adequately addressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Fr. Robert Sirico</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/09/20/the-real-john-henry-newman/comment-page-1/#comment-24805</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Robert Sirico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2010 20:08:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps the confusion over where Newman would stand today is the use of the words &#039;liberal&#039; and &#039;conservative&#039; themselves. I think &#039;orthodox&#039; is perhaps a better phrase. Having said this, Newman, once of the most innovative and orthodox theological thinkers in the last 200 years (Avery Dulles comes to mind in this context as well), clearly defined the &#039;liberalism in religion&#039; he so rigorously and consistently opposed. The following passage of Blessed John Henry (I loved saying that!), which I cited in the EWTN commentary, leaves no doubt where he would stand in the modern debate: &quot;Liberalism in religion is the doctrine that there is no positive truth in religion, but that one creed is as good as another, and this is the teaching which is gaining substance and force daily. It is inconsistent with any recognition of any religion, as true. It teaches that all are to be tolerated, for all are matters of opinion. Revealed religion is not a truth, but a sentiment and a taste; not an objective fact, not miraculous; and it is the right of each individual to make it say just what strikes his fancy. &quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps the confusion over where Newman would stand today is the use of the words &#8216;liberal&#8217; and &#8216;conservative&#8217; themselves. I think &#8216;orthodox&#8217; is perhaps a better phrase. Having said this, Newman, once of the most innovative and orthodox theological thinkers in the last 200 years (Avery Dulles comes to mind in this context as well), clearly defined the &#8216;liberalism in religion&#8217; he so rigorously and consistently opposed. The following passage of Blessed John Henry (I loved saying that!), which I cited in the EWTN commentary, leaves no doubt where he would stand in the modern debate: &#8220;Liberalism in religion is the doctrine that there is no positive truth in religion, but that one creed is as good as another, and this is the teaching which is gaining substance and force daily. It is inconsistent with any recognition of any religion, as true. It teaches that all are to be tolerated, for all are matters of opinion. Revealed religion is not a truth, but a sentiment and a taste; not an objective fact, not miraculous; and it is the right of each individual to make it say just what strikes his fancy. &#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: William Doino</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/09/20/the-real-john-henry-newman/comment-page-1/#comment-24711</link>
		<dc:creator>William Doino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Sep 2010 16:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=21780#comment-24711</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Mr. Cunningham:

Thank you for your note.

You comment: &quot;Of course, Newman was a &#039;conservative&#039; Catholic if one means holding to the Rule of Faith.&quot; 

Exactly! Thats all I have been saying; thank you for affirming that--perhaps we share a measure of agreement after all.

Newman was &quot;Roman School&quot; enough to receive a Cardinal&#039;s hat from a nineteenth-century Roman pontiff; and his own &quot;thunderous&quot; sermons against liberalism speak for themselves. They read even more powerfully today.

My point has been that modern-day liberals who reject authoritative Catholic teachings, wrongly invoke Newman as an ally, when he would have been the first to defend orthodoxy-and the legitimate papal enforcement of it-- and correct their errors.

Reginald-Garrigou-Lagrange (1877-1964) wrote many outstanding works, but also had a tendency toward a rigid &quot;integralism&quot;, rather than the healthy conservatism I&#039;ve described above. Had he, or any other self-styled traditionalist, attacked the conservative Newman, Pope Pius XII, another great conservative (and himself properly critical of certain &quot;new,&quot; wayward theologies), would have overruled them.

In his 1945 letter to the Archbishop of Westminster, &quot;The Service of Truth,&quot; Pius XII celebrated the Newman Centenary, praising the  theologian for his &quot;full adherence to the truth he had now mastered. He held it ever afterwards with unshaken consistency, made it the guiding principle of his whole life, found in it, as in nothing else, full contentment of mind.

&quot;Beyond question, Worshipful Brother, among the many important gifts which will make a later posterity honour the greatness of John Henry Newman, this is his chief title to fame.&quot; (Published in The Tablet, October 13 1945)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr. Cunningham:</p>
<p>Thank you for your note.</p>
<p>You comment: &#8220;Of course, Newman was a &#8216;conservative&#8217; Catholic if one means holding to the Rule of Faith.&#8221; </p>
<p>Exactly! Thats all I have been saying; thank you for affirming that&#8211;perhaps we share a measure of agreement after all.</p>
<p>Newman was &#8220;Roman School&#8221; enough to receive a Cardinal&#8217;s hat from a nineteenth-century Roman pontiff; and his own &#8220;thunderous&#8221; sermons against liberalism speak for themselves. They read even more powerfully today.</p>
<p>My point has been that modern-day liberals who reject authoritative Catholic teachings, wrongly invoke Newman as an ally, when he would have been the first to defend orthodoxy-and the legitimate papal enforcement of it&#8211; and correct their errors.</p>
<p>Reginald-Garrigou-Lagrange (1877-1964) wrote many outstanding works, but also had a tendency toward a rigid &#8220;integralism&#8221;, rather than the healthy conservatism I&#8217;ve described above. Had he, or any other self-styled traditionalist, attacked the conservative Newman, Pope Pius XII, another great conservative (and himself properly critical of certain &#8220;new,&#8221; wayward theologies), would have overruled them.</p>
<p>In his 1945 letter to the Archbishop of Westminster, &#8220;The Service of Truth,&#8221; Pius XII celebrated the Newman Centenary, praising the  theologian for his &#8220;full adherence to the truth he had now mastered. He held it ever afterwards with unshaken consistency, made it the guiding principle of his whole life, found in it, as in nothing else, full contentment of mind.</p>
<p>&#8220;Beyond question, Worshipful Brother, among the many important gifts which will make a later posterity honour the greatness of John Henry Newman, this is his chief title to fame.&#8221; (Published in The Tablet, October 13 1945)</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/09/20/the-real-john-henry-newman/comment-page-1/#comment-24701</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence Cunningham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=21780#comment-24701</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let me add, as an addendum to the above, that one great theologian who was profoundly influenced by Newman was the late Bernard Lonergan, SJ.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me add, as an addendum to the above, that one great theologian who was profoundly influenced by Newman was the late Bernard Lonergan, SJ.</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/09/20/the-real-john-henry-newman/comment-page-1/#comment-24699</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence Cunningham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:48:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=21780#comment-24699</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh Dear! I think we are ships passing in the night. Of course, Newman was a &quot;conservative&quot; Catholic if one means holding to the Rule of Faith. I do not need to read his sermons against liberalism - I have read his sermons for years and have a clear notion of what he meant by the term; indeed the Grammar of Assent was his most subtle (and devastating) attack on liberalism. 
If, however, one wishes to argue that he was a standard bearer for what passed for theology among Catholics in the nineteenth century (most conspicuously, the Roman School) then he was not a &quot;conservative.&quot; Had Newman lived in the twentieth century Garrigou-LaGrange and company would have thundered against him as an exemplar of the nouvelle theologie.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh Dear! I think we are ships passing in the night. Of course, Newman was a &#8220;conservative&#8221; Catholic if one means holding to the Rule of Faith. I do not need to read his sermons against liberalism &#8211; I have read his sermons for years and have a clear notion of what he meant by the term; indeed the Grammar of Assent was his most subtle (and devastating) attack on liberalism.<br />
If, however, one wishes to argue that he was a standard bearer for what passed for theology among Catholics in the nineteenth century (most conspicuously, the Roman School) then he was not a &#8220;conservative.&#8221; Had Newman lived in the twentieth century Garrigou-LaGrange and company would have thundered against him as an exemplar of the nouvelle theologie.</p>
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		<title>By: William Doino</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/09/20/the-real-john-henry-newman/comment-page-1/#comment-24644</link>
		<dc:creator>William Doino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 18:51:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=21780#comment-24644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Mr. Cunningham:

You write:&quot;Newman did blaze a new path in theology,&quot; but I never said he didn&#039;t. 

OF COURSE Newman advanced Catholic theology, as have all the Church&#039;s great theologians; but there is nothing inconsistent with making that statement and maintaining that John Henry Newman was essentially a conservative, as is orthodox Catholicism itself.

 Two modern examples of Catholics who have advanced Catholic thinking, but who are also unquestionably conservative, are Dietrich von Hildebrand, and Joseph Ratzinger, whom we are now blessed to have as Pope. Both are disciples and champions of Newman.

 Authentic conservatism, in the Catholic sense of that term, is not static-- and thus quite open to  development-- but it IS rigorously faithful to Catholic doctrine and Tradition (never attacking or dishonoring it), and thus strongly anti-liberal, as was Newman. 

When great orthodox thinkers &quot;blaze new paths&quot; in Catholic theology, they are not inventing &quot;new&quot; truths--but simply shedding light on ancient ones; truths that have always been present in the Church&#039;s Sacred Deposit of Faith. 

It is one of the great errors of liberal Catholicism to act as if revelation is ongoing, to believe that this or that theologian can invent new teachings, change essential truths, or &quot;revolutionize&quot; Catholic theology. 

Newman&#039;s insights were drawn from the Church&#039;s Sacred Deposit of Faith. They were magnificently communicated THROUGH him; but they did not come directly FROM him. He is not, therefore, the independent, free-floating-- much less anti-conservative-- &quot;innovator&quot; of liberal imagination. 

The path he &quot;blazed&quot; was always orthodox, connected to the established one before it, not a radical departure. 

Cardinal Newman was, as Avery Dulles points out, in his A History of Apologetics, the foremost Catholic apologist of his time, a great defender of Catholic Dogma and Tradition. I thus find your comment about the brilliant and acclaimed Father Jaki being &quot;too apologetic&quot; both amusing and contradictory. Newman, too, was accused of being &quot;too apologetic,&quot; and by some, still is.

 Komonchak&#039;s &quot;progressive&quot; reading of Cardinal Newman is highly selective, and exactly the type of misleading interpretation I cautioned against in my initial commentary. Instead, one should read Newman himself; and a good place to begin are the sermons gathered in Newman Against the Liberals, which ELC has very helpfuly linked to above. 

&quot;What is the world&#039;s religion now?&quot; asked Newman prophetically in &quot;The Religion of the Day,&quot; continuing:

&quot;It has taken the brighter side of the Gospel,--its tidings of comfort, its precepts of love; all darker, deeper views of man&#039;s condition and prospects being comparatively forgotten. This is the religion natural to a civilized age, and well has Satan dressed and completed it into an idol of the Truth.&quot;

What liberal Catholic speaks that way today? None that I know of (though many conservatives do); instead, they are embarassed by the very mention of Satan--and much else in Catholic orthodoxy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr. Cunningham:</p>
<p>You write:&#8221;Newman did blaze a new path in theology,&#8221; but I never said he didn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>OF COURSE Newman advanced Catholic theology, as have all the Church&#8217;s great theologians; but there is nothing inconsistent with making that statement and maintaining that John Henry Newman was essentially a conservative, as is orthodox Catholicism itself.</p>
<p> Two modern examples of Catholics who have advanced Catholic thinking, but who are also unquestionably conservative, are Dietrich von Hildebrand, and Joseph Ratzinger, whom we are now blessed to have as Pope. Both are disciples and champions of Newman.</p>
<p> Authentic conservatism, in the Catholic sense of that term, is not static&#8211; and thus quite open to  development&#8211; but it IS rigorously faithful to Catholic doctrine and Tradition (never attacking or dishonoring it), and thus strongly anti-liberal, as was Newman. </p>
<p>When great orthodox thinkers &#8220;blaze new paths&#8221; in Catholic theology, they are not inventing &#8220;new&#8221; truths&#8211;but simply shedding light on ancient ones; truths that have always been present in the Church&#8217;s Sacred Deposit of Faith. </p>
<p>It is one of the great errors of liberal Catholicism to act as if revelation is ongoing, to believe that this or that theologian can invent new teachings, change essential truths, or &#8220;revolutionize&#8221; Catholic theology. </p>
<p>Newman&#8217;s insights were drawn from the Church&#8217;s Sacred Deposit of Faith. They were magnificently communicated THROUGH him; but they did not come directly FROM him. He is not, therefore, the independent, free-floating&#8211; much less anti-conservative&#8211; &#8220;innovator&#8221; of liberal imagination. </p>
<p>The path he &#8220;blazed&#8221; was always orthodox, connected to the established one before it, not a radical departure. </p>
<p>Cardinal Newman was, as Avery Dulles points out, in his A History of Apologetics, the foremost Catholic apologist of his time, a great defender of Catholic Dogma and Tradition. I thus find your comment about the brilliant and acclaimed Father Jaki being &#8220;too apologetic&#8221; both amusing and contradictory. Newman, too, was accused of being &#8220;too apologetic,&#8221; and by some, still is.</p>
<p> Komonchak&#8217;s &#8220;progressive&#8221; reading of Cardinal Newman is highly selective, and exactly the type of misleading interpretation I cautioned against in my initial commentary. Instead, one should read Newman himself; and a good place to begin are the sermons gathered in Newman Against the Liberals, which ELC has very helpfuly linked to above. </p>
<p>&#8220;What is the world&#8217;s religion now?&#8221; asked Newman prophetically in &#8220;The Religion of the Day,&#8221; continuing:</p>
<p>&#8220;It has taken the brighter side of the Gospel,&#8211;its tidings of comfort, its precepts of love; all darker, deeper views of man&#8217;s condition and prospects being comparatively forgotten. This is the religion natural to a civilized age, and well has Satan dressed and completed it into an idol of the Truth.&#8221;</p>
<p>What liberal Catholic speaks that way today? None that I know of (though many conservatives do); instead, they are embarassed by the very mention of Satan&#8211;and much else in Catholic orthodoxy.</p>
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		<title>By: ELC</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/09/20/the-real-john-henry-newman/comment-page-1/#comment-24601</link>
		<dc:creator>ELC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 13:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=21780#comment-24601</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have indexed the sermons in &quot;Newman Against the Liberals&quot; with links to them at Newman Reader.

http://weblog.theviewfromthecore.com/2004_08/ind_003918.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have indexed the sermons in &#8220;Newman Against the Liberals&#8221; with links to them at Newman Reader.</p>
<p><a href="http://weblog.theviewfromthecore.com/2004_08/ind_003918.html" rel="nofollow">http://weblog.theviewfromthecore.com/2004_08/ind_003918.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/09/20/the-real-john-henry-newman/comment-page-1/#comment-24600</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence Cunningham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=21780#comment-24600</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I do not want to go on ad infinitum on this topic but, in fact, Newman did blaze a new path in theology in the 19th century (as did the Tubingen theologians in a different fashion). Rather than give more examples I recommend the balanced view of Father Joe Komonchak in the Current COMMONWEAL. 
As for Father Jaki&#039;s work on Newman: too apologetic in the less flattering sense of the word.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not want to go on ad infinitum on this topic but, in fact, Newman did blaze a new path in theology in the 19th century (as did the Tubingen theologians in a different fashion). Rather than give more examples I recommend the balanced view of Father Joe Komonchak in the Current COMMONWEAL.<br />
As for Father Jaki&#8217;s work on Newman: too apologetic in the less flattering sense of the word.</p>
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		<title>By: Cardinal Newman&#8217;s great battle &#171; Throne and Altar</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/09/20/the-real-john-henry-newman/comment-page-1/#comment-24587</link>
		<dc:creator>Cardinal Newman&#8217;s great battle &#171; Throne and Altar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Sep 2010 05:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=21780#comment-24587</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] First Things for other Newman quotes.  Also, I strongly recommend reading his wonderful [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] First Things for other Newman quotes.  Also, I strongly recommend reading his wonderful [...]</p>
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		<title>By: William Doino</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/09/20/the-real-john-henry-newman/comment-page-1/#comment-24556</link>
		<dc:creator>William Doino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:37:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=21780#comment-24556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Mr. Cunningham:

 Thank you for you input, despite our differing views.
 
I believe Newman was &quot;adventuresome&quot; only within the boundaries of orthodoxy; he took painstaking care to distinguish between authentic developments, and erroneous ones.

 Pointing to suspicions or excesses against Newman, from this or that isolated traditional figure, does not, in my opinion, undermine my position that he was essentially conservative. 
 
I&#039;m sure Cardnal Newman would have been a champion of Vatican II, as well as Pope  John Paul II&#039;s opposition to its amorphous &quot;spirit;&quot; and applaud Pope Benedict&#039;s defense of the Council as something continuous with Catholic tradition, rather than a revolutionary break with it. 

One can remain a conservative and disagree with Ottaviani (conservatives/traditionalists in communion with Rome have many good-faith, in-house debates); I know conservatives who did and do, including some who actually participated in the Council.

As I said in my piece, if Pope Benedict read out some of Cardinal Newman&#039;s searing sermons today, particularly those which touch upon judgment and damnation, applying them to wayward souls, he would be denounced as a &quot;rigid conservative,&quot; and likely much worse. Indeed, he already is described as such by many self-proclaimed religious liberals, even though his sermons are more gentle than many of Newman&#039;s.

Regarding Newman and the much-misunderstood doctrine of papal infallibility, which he certainly believed in, even if he disagreed with the exact timing of its definition, I think the best treatment is in Ian Ker&#039;s biography (John Henry Newman, Oxford Univ Press, chapter 17); and also in Father Jaki, who wrote: &quot;His (Newman&#039;s) opposition to the advisability of the definition of papal infallibility always contained emphatic statements of his belief that the popes are infallible and therefore deserve an unreserved assent on our part to what they teach and not, to use some recent phrases of subtle evasiveness, &#039;critical obedience,&#039; or &#039;a measure of conservatism.&#039;&quot; In other words, Newman was committed to Catholic orthodoxy-- and thus papal authority-- with both feet, not one.

I don&#039;t think that anyone who comes into even minor conflict with Rome is somewhow a daring innovator. Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre felt the stern hand of Rome (justifiably, in my view), but he was hardly an innovator.

I agree with you that Cardinal Newman was a great saint. On that, we quite agree.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr. Cunningham:</p>
<p> Thank you for you input, despite our differing views.</p>
<p>I believe Newman was &#8220;adventuresome&#8221; only within the boundaries of orthodoxy; he took painstaking care to distinguish between authentic developments, and erroneous ones.</p>
<p> Pointing to suspicions or excesses against Newman, from this or that isolated traditional figure, does not, in my opinion, undermine my position that he was essentially conservative. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure Cardnal Newman would have been a champion of Vatican II, as well as Pope  John Paul II&#8217;s opposition to its amorphous &#8220;spirit;&#8221; and applaud Pope Benedict&#8217;s defense of the Council as something continuous with Catholic tradition, rather than a revolutionary break with it. </p>
<p>One can remain a conservative and disagree with Ottaviani (conservatives/traditionalists in communion with Rome have many good-faith, in-house debates); I know conservatives who did and do, including some who actually participated in the Council.</p>
<p>As I said in my piece, if Pope Benedict read out some of Cardinal Newman&#8217;s searing sermons today, particularly those which touch upon judgment and damnation, applying them to wayward souls, he would be denounced as a &#8220;rigid conservative,&#8221; and likely much worse. Indeed, he already is described as such by many self-proclaimed religious liberals, even though his sermons are more gentle than many of Newman&#8217;s.</p>
<p>Regarding Newman and the much-misunderstood doctrine of papal infallibility, which he certainly believed in, even if he disagreed with the exact timing of its definition, I think the best treatment is in Ian Ker&#8217;s biography (John Henry Newman, Oxford Univ Press, chapter 17); and also in Father Jaki, who wrote: &#8220;His (Newman&#8217;s) opposition to the advisability of the definition of papal infallibility always contained emphatic statements of his belief that the popes are infallible and therefore deserve an unreserved assent on our part to what they teach and not, to use some recent phrases of subtle evasiveness, &#8216;critical obedience,&#8217; or &#8216;a measure of conservatism.&#8217;&#8221; In other words, Newman was committed to Catholic orthodoxy&#8211; and thus papal authority&#8211; with both feet, not one.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that anyone who comes into even minor conflict with Rome is somewhow a daring innovator. Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre felt the stern hand of Rome (justifiably, in my view), but he was hardly an innovator.</p>
<p>I agree with you that Cardinal Newman was a great saint. On that, we quite agree.</p>
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