Back in 2005, the now-emeritus scholar Guenter Lewy published The Armenian Massacres in Ottoman Turkey: A Disputed Genocide, a book that argued that there wasn’t much evidence that the massacre of Armenians during World War I was caused by a deliberate Turkish plan to destroy the Armenian people—and, thus, that the Armenian deaths didn’t qualify as a genocide.
Whereupon the Southern Poverty Law Center declared that “Lewy is one of the most active members of a network of American scholars, influence peddlers and website operators, financed by hundreds of thousands of dollars each year from the government of Turkey, who promote the denial of the Armenian genocide.”
Lewy sued, and it has now been announced that the Southern Poverty Law Center will, in settlement, entirely retract their claims, publishing the retraction is several prominent places.
This is an important event to note. The bullying of scholars by political engines—the insistence that immediate and vicious attacks follow any deviation from a political useful account of science or history—has reached brutal proportions. Look at environmentalism, World War II, the Middle Ages, and much more.
Guenter Lewy is no friend to this magazine’s projects, but he deserves real praise for standing up to the pack and forcing this retraction.
September 29th, 2010 | 2:26 pm
yeah, finally it is ok to deny the Armenian Genocide! Finally! Whew! Good on you First Things. So what about bullying of scholars by political smear machines that you are awfully quiet about.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/04/AR2008070402408.html
Take a read here and post your response if you dare.
September 29th, 2010 | 5:43 pm
I am delighted that opinion thugs were given a simple lesson in law: stop slandering, intimidating and terrorizing dissenters.
Together with 9th Circuit court’s ruling in August of 2009 that genocide resolutions have no basis and they seek to contravene executive and federal authority, therefore, illegal, gives a strong message to all those Armenian falsifiers, fanatic Turk-haters, and their allies that bullying and/or political pressure will no longer be accepted as replacements for scholarly research, debate, and review.
September 29th, 2010 | 8:21 pm
Eh, the term “genocide” is insane in itself. Mass murder is a bad thing in itself.
September 29th, 2010 | 11:49 pm
It took the Southern Poverty Law Center a year to apologize for an accusation. Meanwhile, 95 years later the Armenian people are still waiting for an apology for the deliberate murder of their ancestors.
September 30th, 2010 | 12:05 am
I am glad to hear that the Southern Poverty Law Center retracted their political comments on Guenter Lewy’s views on the so-called Armenian genocide claims.
No doubt and undeniable that Armenians were relocated, massacred and suffered greatly in Ottoman Empire in the events of 1915. It would be inhumane not to accept the Armenian’s sufferings without forgetting the other’s suffering as well.
The so-called Armenian genocide claims were mainly built and maintained by major political, economical, social, territorial concerns.
The so-called Armenian genocide claims miss the humanitarian aspect of the events and want to push the Armenian’s political, economical, social, territorial agenda for the dream of Greater Armenia.
To accomplish this goal the Armenians want to shield their agenda behind the word of Genocide with which gain sympathy by exploiting human feeling.
I am glad o hear that the Southern Poverty Law Center retracted their political comments on Guenter Lewy’s views.
Now we are one step closer to the truth.
September 30th, 2010 | 3:03 am
Despite Yakut’s descriptions, what happened to the Armenian population went beyond consequences of war. The Armenian population, the vast majority of whom were unarmed and represented no threat, was deliberately targeted by the Ottoman government, regardless of how far away they were from any front lines of war. Marching 100s of thousands of people through 100s of miles into the Syrian desert will result in deaths. And that is what happened. And yet the orders for marches kept coming for months on end. This is in addition to the outright massacres by Turkish troops and some Kurdish tribes.
Why were the Armenian’s being relocated from the lands they had lived on long before any Turks existed in Anatolia? There is characterization of the result of the marches and tragic and unfortunate, but why were there orders for deporting civilians to begin with?
Genocide scholars and including Turkish scholars know why. Read their work.
Kirlikovali, you should look into history of the Turkish Republic itself and see what bullying is.
September 30th, 2010 | 8:09 am
@Random Armenian
“Why were the Armenian’s being relocated from the lands they had lived on long before any Turks existed in Anatolia?”
Relocation was one of the official policies of the Ottoman Empire. Many people were relocated in Ottoman Empire as a result of this policy, and this can be seen in the centuries old lyrics of Anatolian Turks and Turkmen tribes of Anatolia.
While Turks considered 3rd class citizen, suffered greatly by Ottoman policies and other ethnicities were relocated for centuries, the Armenians did do nothing to raise concerns. Why?
The point is the relocation was nothing different than those done during the past.
In Ottoman’s eyes, and the Ottoman parliament, with six Armenian members who also approved the relocation of Armenians was no different than previous ones.
Technically, Syria was an Ottoman territory and again technically Ottomans’s were relocation the Armenians in the Ottoman territory, not out of the Ottoman Empire.
Now, what went wrong during the relocation must be condemned collectively and inclusively for other races without labeling the events with a legal term Genocide to shield he Armenian’s political, economical, social, territorial agenda for the dream of Greater Armenia.
Sincerity will bring sincerity, and understanding!
September 30th, 2010 | 1:40 pm
What part of what the Southern Poverty Law Center said was not true? It is all true. 20 countries including 44 US States, all credible historians including the 126 members of the International Assoc of Genocide Scholars and even Rafael Lemkin, who invented the word “GENOCIDE”, already acknowledge the Armenian Genocide as fact.
It should be equally noted that besides the 1.5 million Armenians that were systematically murdered by the Turks, there were 500k Pontiff Greeks and nearly 1 million Christians Assyrians who were also liquidated at the same campaign of race extermination. None belonged to any army and most all were women and children and the elderly.
In fact The United States National Archives and
Record Administration holds extensive and thorough documentation on the Armenian Genocide, especially in its holdings under Record Group 59 of the United States Department of State, files 867.00 and
867.40, which are open and widely available to the public and interested institutions.
The Armenian Genocide is not in doubt. The main reason for the Armenian Genocide was theft. Turks wanted the money and property of their victims. Turks need to come to terms with their genocidal past.
September 30th, 2010 | 2:07 pm
One more thing, Turks want to invoke their “freedom of speech” whenever they peddle their historical revisionist stance about their genocidal past however they themselves have laws in Turkey, article, #301, that jails anyone and sometimes kills anyone who dares tell the truth. Apparently they have much to hide.
September 30th, 2010 | 5:40 pm
it is a late apoligy..but at least some people will know they cannot just say anything about anyone they dont like! if you want to know what really happened in 1915 you can just read first armenian pm s confession about it. that confessions itself shows there wasnt a genocide took place.
‘… The war with us was inevitable… We had not done all that was necessary for us to have done to evade war. We ought to have used peaceful language with the Turks…We had no information about the real strength of the Turks and relied on ours. This was the fundamental error. We were not afraid of war because we thought we could win… Our army was well fed and well armed and [clothed] but it did not fight. The troops were constantly retreating and deserting their positions ; they threw away their arms and dispersed in the villages. …In spite of the fact that the Armenians had better material and better support, their armies lost. ….. the advancing Turks fought only against the regular soldiers ; they did not carry the battle to the civilian sector. ….the Turkish soldiers were well-disciplined and that there had not been any massacres…’
Source: The 1923 Bucharest Manifesto of Hovhannes Katchaznouni, the first PM of the Independent Armenian Republic, published by the Armenian Information Service Suite 7D, 471 Park Ave., New York 22 – 1955.
September 30th, 2010 | 5:42 pm
There was an Armenian problem for the Turks created by the advance of the Russians, and also there was a population with an anti-Turkish sentiment in the Ottoman Empire who sought independence, and they overtly sympathized with the Russians advancing from the Caucasus. Also, there were Armenian bands, the Armenians bragged about their heroic exploits in resistance, and the Turks had trouble to maintain order under the prevailing war conditions. For the Turks it was necessary to take the punitive and preventive measure against a hostile population in a region threatened by foreign invasion. For the Armenians it was liberating their land. However, both parties agree that the repression was geographically limited; for example, those measures did not affect the Armenians who lived in the other parts of the Ottoman Empire.http://www.armeniangenocidedebate.com/faq
September 30th, 2010 | 8:54 pm
Sorry DIKE: The Turks were horrible occupiers and by WW1 most other races had been free from hundreds of years of Turkish misrule. The Armenians were not as fortunate as their ancient homeland was in Anatolia itself so in 1915 the Turks decided upon Genocide and carried it out. Also,there were many eye witnesses to the Genocide including our own U.S. Ambassador Henry Morgenthau who wrote extensively on “the Armenian race extermination”. He wrote specifically “And in my direct contact with Talaat he made no attempt to hide that fact”. The purpose of the deportations WAS THEFT BY DEATH and it came directly from the top of the government. It was state planned.. Henry Morgenthau knew what was happening. Talaat’s own memoirs, the Turkish genocidal mastermind, recently published by Turkish writer Murat Bardacki, accounts for accurate Armenian death tolls were Talaat wrote that between 1915-1916, one short year, 972,000 Armenians simply vanished from Ottoman records. The New York times published an article in 2009 on the memoirs. Also, just go to any official archival record of most modern countries and you will find the same actors, same circumstances and the same results all written in real time. Armenian Genocide is not in doubt. There is no question mark here. Only the Turks seem to hide from the Truth. Neither is the Pontiff Greek or the Christian Assyrian genocide in doubt either. Turks need and come to terms with their genocidal past. This will not go away.
In fact and not Turkish paid propaganda just wikipedia@
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
October 1st, 2010 | 1:35 am
M.Yakut,
Your last post is nothing whitewashing of what happened. You did not answer why there was deportation to begin with. What happened starting in 1915 went beyond a deportation. Often the men were killed before the marches began, leaving mostly women, kids and old men in the caravans. Kurds and Turks were allowed to attack the caravans while under the guard Ottoman soldiers. In the north those rounded up were thrown into the Black Sea. These we know because of non-Armenian diplomatic sources as well survivor accounts. This was not a deportation but death marches. And we haven’t even talked about the outright in-situ massacres.
In all sincerity, if you had the power and saw that the deportations were causing such horrible destruction on a people, would you have not stopped it rather than have it continue for 2 years or more?
Of course the deportations did not go outside of the Ottoman boundaries because that would mean Ottoman soldiers marching into another country. Crossing the border is irrelevant, they were marched through desert conditions with no regard for safety, food or water.
“While Turks considered 3rd class citizen, suffered greatly by Ottoman policies and other ethnicities were relocated for centuries, the Armenians did do nothing to raise concerns. Why?”
This sentence is not clear and makes no sense. Please elaborate.
October 1st, 2010 | 9:15 am
john1915,
I believe the issue regarding this lawsuit and judgment has to do with the SPLC accusing Lewy of being financed by the Turkish side for publishing his book but not being able to back it up with evidence. There is an active and financed effort by Turkey and Turkish groups against genocide recognition, but SPLC probably did not have the evidence to make that connection with Lewy. It’s a very strong accusation to make and SPLC should have left that to Armenians to make ;)
This decision and the 9th circuit ruling from 2009 don’t have anything to do with the scholarly and historical merits of the Armenian genocide. The 2009 decision had to do with California doing something what the court saw as going against the current foreign policy of the US government.
Here’s another recent court case:
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2010/08/201081234955257668.html
October 1st, 2010 | 9:33 am
Bernard Lewis Speaking on Armenian Allegations
October 1st, 2010 | 10:01 am
This discussion should not be open to opinion, but knowledge. This below link is the diary of a Russian Lieutenant that was stationed in the eastern Ottoman Empire during the Russian invasion. It is in Turkish, English, and French. It also has the scanned version of the actual diary in Russian at the end.
http://www.tsk.tr/eng/ermeni_sorunu_salonu/arsiv_belgeleriyle_ermeni_faaliyetleri/pdf/yarbay_tverdohlebov.pdf
October 1st, 2010 | 12:06 pm
Why were the Assyrians and the Pontiff Greeks liquidated? Did they have armies? Did they side with the enemy? Hardly. They were Ottoman occupied citizens as well and should have been protected but instead were singled out en mass for their land and wealth and most were either murdered, raped, burned, drowned, sufficated, bludgeoned, beaten, thrown off cliffs, anything that the Turks could think of..
Lets be Clear: Only the Turks and a hand full of “paid scholars” disagree on the facts of the Armenian genocide. That is not opinion but fact. Also, one day the US State Department is not going to be able to purposely go counter to our well documented US archives in order to help the Turks distort the truth here in the US anymore. Those day are slowly coming to an end. The big 95 years Turkish amnesia is there to avoid an apology, compensation and return of land stolen. The theft after all was the whole purpose of the genocide and the Turks are not about to give it back. That is why the Turks have laws in Turkey banning anyone from speaking the truth of the Armenian Greek and Assyrian Genocide. They have much to hide.
October 1st, 2010 | 1:42 pm
someone asks, why the armenians population relocated? the reason is simple, there were uprising during WW1 and some Armenians sided with the Russians, and attacked Ottomans, No one, not even armenians can deny this, just google it. If mexicans sides with Germany, what would USA do during ww2? look at Japanese americans, even though they have not even sided or used any violence!!
google dashnak, tasnak, etc…
“In early 1915, a number of Armenian nationalist groups, such as the Armenakan, Dashnak and Hunchak organizations, joined the Russian forces”
“The army corps of Armenian volunteer units realigned under the command of General Tovmas Nazarbekian, with Dro as a civilian commissioner of the Administration for Western Armenia. The front line had three main divisions commanded by Movses Silikyan, Andranik, and Mikhail Areshian. Another regular unit was under Colonel Korganian. More than 40,000 men in Armenian partisan guerrilla detachments accompanied the main units.[66″
October 1st, 2010 | 1:49 pm
well John1915 asks why Greeks were deported, Turks of Greece were also deported, why not mention them?? dont be one sided, be objective. have empathy even towards your enemies. Who attacked and occupied who? Greece attacked and occupied Turkey in 1919!! and stayed there till 1922 and killed thousands of civilians, and burned villages! just google and find a objective historian. It is so unbelievable, that people who attack your country then turn the tables and say, they were killed, or deported!! simple question, who started the war in 1919? Greece!
“During the past nine months parties of regular Greek soldiers with
officers marched at intervals into villages in the neighbourhood of
Bozalfat (Eser Koy) near Aghva. The Greek brigand Katsaros had been a
visitor and behaved badly. Both Greek regular officers and men had
raped women and committed robberies and acts of violence.
Greek soldiers took everything of value such as money, cattle and
effects, having tortured the people. There were cases of murder and
rape. Some villages were totally or partly destroyed. The villages of
Mehter Koy, Lazlar Koyu, Armak Koy, Omer Aga Koyu and Aga Koy were
totally destroyed.
Everywhere the Greek soldiers behaved savagely, killing men and raping
women. They hung some peopler by their feet over straw fires. In the
Beykoz area many massacres took place at Cubuklu and bodies were
exhumed. They were buried fully clothed and shod, thrown together.
The historian Arnold J. Toynbee and his wife personally witnessed
these atrocities.29
Meanwhile, the Greek authorities, who were embarrassed (!) by these
excesses, were trying to turn the tables against the Turks by accusing
them of counter-atrocities. “
October 1st, 2010 | 6:24 pm
Vildan you have a million and one excuses anything but the truth. The truth is Turkey wanted the lands and the wealth of their victims including over one million Assyrians murdered. Who did they side with?Turkey also occupied other races for hundreds of years. By ww1 most all broke free of the horrible Turkish occupation however the GREEKS, Assyrians and the Armenians were not so lucky. Their lands were right in ANATOLIA SO IN 1915 THE TURKS DECIDED UPON GENOCIDE AND CARRIED IT OUT. It was a planned liquidation. ALL CALL IT GENOCIDE.
Also ALL those lands were either Greek or Armenian that you call Turkey today. All was stolen through murder. PS Why is it against the law to to confirm the Armenian genocide in Turkey today? You have much to hide?
October 1st, 2010 | 11:32 pm
I am hopeful that one day everyone will recognize the ASALA murders of Turkish Diplomats who were killed during their duties as Genocide. We did not forget it and we will never forget it.
October 2nd, 2010 | 9:24 am
The US congress just adopted a resolution condemning the illegal occupation, cultural destruction and human rights violations of Cypress by the Turks. It is only a matter of time that the US congress joins the rest of the modern world and all credible historians in condemning the first genocide of the twentieth century: The Armenian , Greek, and Assyrian Genocides by the Turks.
October 2nd, 2010 | 7:15 pm
@john1915
“The US congress just adopted a resolution condemning the illegal occupation, cultural destruction and human rights violations of Cypress by the Turks.”
john1915, This is not because Turks did illegal occupation, cultural destruction and human rights violations of Cypress.
This is simply because current regressive Mohammedan AKP and Mr.Erdoagan’s government got in to confrontation with Israeli government to gain the sympathy of other Muhammedan , hence the Israeli lobby in the USA and elsewhere in the world.
But, you are right in your prediction of “It is only a matter of time that the US congress joins the rest of the modern world and all credible historians in condemning the first genocide of the twentieth century:”
It is said that this is already accepted by Mr.Erdogan and AKP government and agreed to make it happen.
It is said and reported that Mr.Erdogan and AKP government had an agreement with the previous Bush administration to set the groung for USA accept the events as Genocide to continue building their totalitarian, regressive Mohammedan monarchy.
So, as you see how “Genocide” used in politics and everywhere else not only by the Armenians but the Turks themselves to reach their political goals.
On that note, all the Armenians and Greeks, Pontic Rums and Syriacs as well as Kirmanchis, Zazas, Loki and Sorans should be thankful to Mr.Erdogan and AKP for making their dreams true.
October 3rd, 2010 | 3:10 am
John1915, you are the one who is hiding, Turkey asked Armenia to open their archives and also russia, Armenia refuses to open old archives! so they must have something to hide! Also why do you threaten Historians? Let them research, you did this with Mr. Lewy, it did not work I am so happy the courts in USA is just! unlike in France, where Parliament passed a law for genocide and Bernard Lewis was punished and fined for not calling it a genocide and saying there was NO GENOCIDE! so let me think these historians who can read and write old ottoman language think that there was NO GENOCIDE but some politician in France or USA with no Turkish or old ottoman knowledge, can decide it was a genocide!?? give me a break, which planet are they living? Instead of Turkey, they should concentrate on Algerian Genocide, Vietnam, Rwanda, Indian genocides, Turks got nothing to hide, we are asking for historians to decide, not politicians.
October 3rd, 2010 | 3:19 am
for the truth, Historians (american, jewish etc, note not turkish) are saying it was not Genocide, so i should just ignore them and believe you? for truth, read objective history, read How Armenians joined Russians and attacked Ottomans during ww1, then we can talk. we are not denying bad things, killings happened on both sides. or there were deportations, there were. But to say it was genocide, you accuse us, then you need to prove, not me! in the court of law, you need to prove, not the innocent(or accused) has to prove his innocence. For real historians, there is no proof for genocide even as you wish there was (even that sounds as sick in mentally) I think as a people you need to move on, forgive, ask for forgiveness, and forget, life is too short to hate people or hold grudges.
Love and peace.
October 3rd, 2010 | 1:11 pm
vildan,
American, Jewish as well as Turkish, and genocide scholars have asserted that what happened to the Armenians was genocide. You are deliberately ignoring this. You’re ignoring the research put forth and making it sounds like it’s only something Armenians are saying. I have been to seminars where Turkish scholars have openly talked about it as genocide.
This is not so much about grudges as correcting a piece of history that has been deliberately covered up by the Turkish government. Even you don’t buy into the genocide idea, what has been openly talked about over the past 10 years in Turkey contrasts greatly with the official history that the Turkish government as pushed on its people.
October 3rd, 2010 | 9:53 pm
Random Armenians, so called American scholars, none of them can speak or read Ottoman language, so how can they prove something as a genocide without even reading the accused governments’s documents? and those documents are open to researchers, Turkish government saying, come and research, why people afraid of this? Historian Bernard Lewis can read and write ottoman, he researched the archives and says it was NOT a genocide, also Gunther Lewy, says it was not genocide, why are you ignoring them?? Is it some french historian who cannot read or write ottoman, who decides this? or some politicians?
If and when they prove it was a genocide, then I will be the first one the admit, Yes it was. I am waiting till this time.
Don’t get me wrong, lot of people on both sides got killed, and Armenians who were deported suffered a lot. I am sorry for all the people during WW1. lot of massacres on all sides happened. Do you think Russians were such human rights respecting army that they did not massacred Turks? Or French in Cicilia Adana.
I will not accept some politician from US or France to tell me it was a genocide, they should look at their own governments genocides first then talk about others. especially France being part of the Rwandan genocide just recently 15 years ago!
October 4th, 2010 | 12:55 am
vildan,
Does Lewy know Ottoman Turkish? Did he visit the archives? My understanding is no and no. As for Lewis, and others who argue against genocide are missing the point about how the Armenian population as a whole was targeted. The deportation of a population still makes no sense and unjustifiable. You can point to dashnaks and other groups, but we are talking about targeting the overall unarmed Armenian population.
The comparison with the Japanese internments makes no sense. What happened to them is acknowledged as wrong and an apology has been made by the US.
It is my understanding that Taner Akcam and Dadrian have visited the Turkish archives but not all the archives are open, particularly the most revealing ones. And this is assuming that there have not been purges in the archives.
As for the Armenian archives, the first Armenian republic was founded after the genocide in 1918 and would not contain anywhere near relevant documents as the Turkish archive, if any.
Besides, you should also look at the American and German archives and how they consistently describe unfolding events as systematic.
Last but not least, this is not about how everyone lost people on their side, it’s about how.
October 5th, 2010 | 6:57 pm
Vildan, “threaten Historians”? Article #301 ring a bell? How many historians are hiding or in jail or being prosecuted in Turkey today? It is you Turks that threaten historians and hide behind laws under “insulting Turkishness” for anyone going against the official Turkish denial of it’s own Archives. The Armenian archives are open but it is insulting to Armenians to “create a historical commission” which is only there to waste more time as the Turks want. Also the ICTJ was asked a few years ago by both Turks and the Armenians to conclude upon genocide and they did conclude that the events of 1915 do constitute genocide. The Turks just ignored their conclusion. The Armenian genocide is the second most studied genocide with the grand majority of historians and scholars all agreeing to the fact that it was the first genocide of the 20th century. Also the LPLC settled with that phony Lewy before going to trial. The LPLC would have won as Lewy would have to prove damages which he couldn’t. Settling with Lewy was a mistake for the LPLC.
Links
Blogs
Find Us
Contact