Over at Cranach, Gene Edward Veith (provost and professor of literature at Patrick Henry College) ponders the state of argumentation in a world of blogging, and for good reason. His
. . . innocent little post has now chalked up a record 422 comments at last count. What happened is that a very heated debate broke out between Lutherans and non-Lutherans on the true meaning of John 20:23. Before long, Luther was getting bashed, and non-Lutherans were getting bashed, and feelings were getting hurt on both sides. Then, at about comment #359, people started talking about ME, taking me to task for allowing unkind things being said on my blog. I should not allow certain things to be said. I should establish a code of conduct, require registration, moderate comments, monitor what people say, and delete negative remarks.
Dr. Veith is surprised? Blogs and the comments they sometimes invite are a bit Wild West. He does offer a few rules for cyber argumentation, of course. For instance, sure, Jesus could call Pharisees a “brood of vipers,” but you can’t because you are not Jesus. Good point, but mostly he concludes bloggy argumentation, if it is to be real argumentation instead of a string of bad names, comes down to trust and respect and humility. Since he owns the site, he tells his responders . . .
. . . I’ve got to trust you, and I do. Learn how to argue. Don’t have a thin skin. Talk with people you don’t agree with. Try to win each other over. Realize that we have in common both the wretchedness of our sin and the forgiveness of our Savior.
Maybe Dr. Veith’s experience was not that unusual and his advice not that striking. Still, civility does retain some place in debate, doesn’t it? And if the rules for civility Dr. Veith suggests are basic if not simple, possibly those exactly are the sort that need the most reinforcement time to time.
I’ve never experienced anything I would regard as vitriolic, though rancorous comes close. Something I posted here earned a comparison to a boil being lanced. The responder, a fellow Lutheran, conveyed the idea I was writing for a bunch of traditionalist boils, if I wasn’t the boil myself. I would like to know who was wielding the lance, but that’s of no matter. After wondering if traditionalist pastors as myself “visit the holocaust museum or something to get in the mood before one of [our] meetings” he then asserted that I and others like me are really, oh gosh, Calvinists.
Now that stung. Lutherans never acquired the custom of burning witches, but we did go on hunts for “crypto-Calvinists” hiding in our pews and pulpits, and I’ll grant the guy probably we weren’t as thorough as we should have been, which may explain his continuing search. But still. I’d put him a time out chair for that, along with the others of his brood. Maybe there is something just mean about us Lutherans.
October 14th, 2010 | 4:01 pm
Still, civility does retain some place in debate, doesn’t it?
[bleep] no.
October 14th, 2010 | 6:14 pm
Actually, persecution of witches happened in all the major branches of Western Christianity: Catholic, Lutheran, Calvinist, and Anglican. Catholics tended to burn them, Protestants to hang them. One of the strange things about the witch craze is that it intensified toward the very end of the Middle Ages (it was almost unknown in the early and high Middle Ages) and peaked in the early modern period from about 1580-1630. A true wave of madness.
October 14th, 2010 | 9:48 pm
Witchcrazes are known throughout the world regardless of religion practiced except in modern industrialized societies and certain hunting and gathering ones.
October 14th, 2010 | 10:59 pm
Stephen,
What is your source for your claim? I am unaware of any Lutheran Churches authorizing the burning witches. Thank you.
Trey
October 14th, 2010 | 11:05 pm
It wasn’t just the Lutherans who were being “mean” in the discussion in question on my blog. Non-Lutherans were also being mean to the Lutherans. My readers are actually more civil than is the norm on blogs. I was just knocking some heads together to restore order. Plus, after my admonition, most of the offenders were properly contrite, like good Lutherans. Even the non-Lutherans.
October 15th, 2010 | 9:48 am
Dear Trey,
Almost any book that deals with the history of witch-hunts will tell you that Catholics and Protestants had roughly comparable records in hunting and killing witches. Not having the time to go to the university library today, I will just give some figures available on-line from a book “Witches and Witch-hunts; a global history”, by Wolfgang Behringer. On page 124-5 he specifically discusses Lutheran territories: the duchy of Mecklenburg had between 1560 and 1700 about 4,000 witch trials. Pomerania had 1,000 trials and about 600 victims. Schleswig-Holstein had 846 trials and about 600 victims. Thuringia had between 1000 and 1500 trials and over 500 victims. Norway had 350 victims. Iceland 22. Denmark about 1,000 victims. and so on.
It is not a question of Church tribunals condemning witches. In both Catholic and Protestant lands most witches were sentenced by civil courts, not ecclesiastical courts.
The witch craze was most intense in regions where there was Protestant-Catholic tension and conflict, and in particular in Germany, Switzerland, and parts of France. the farther one gets from those places the fewer instances of witch hunts. There was a significant amount in the England/Scotland. Very little in Spain or Poland. Virtually none in Eastern Orthodox lands.
In any event, as I said, Catholics and Protestants (including Lutheran, Calvinist, and Anglican) were all heavily involved. One can consult any serious history of the subject for confirmation. I am afraid both Catholic and Protestant have plenty to blush about here.
(One notable example: the great scientist Johannes Kepler’s mother was accused of witchcraft by her fellow Lutherans, and Kepler had to exert himself to prevent her from being condemned.)
October 18th, 2010 | 9:24 am
[...] together and they are a lot more cohesive than traditional Christian expressions. If we are ugly on the blogs, then when it really matters, what do we [...]
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