Comments on: The Archetypal and Declining Jesuits

By: Jocon307

Jocon307 — Tue, 03 May 2011 05:16:25 +0000

My father went to Holy Cross and he was the most faithful person I have ever known.

Some of the talk here is very high falutin’, but I don’t think it is SO HARD to follow Christ.

What I know I know from my dad, who lived it every day in every way. He hated the sin, but loved the sinner. He worked as a child welfare worker in NYC in the 1970s, so you know he saw it all. He never gave you any excuse when you were in the wrong, but he loved every person, because God had made that person.

I think the Jesuits may have over-intellectualized themselves into incoherence and that is sad.

Maybe they need to listen to a few good bluegrass religious songs or something and get straightened out that way.

Because my dad was pretty intellectual, but he never got confused about the fundamentals.

By: nSJ

nSJ — Fri, 29 Apr 2011 16:43:49 +0000

First of all, I’m not entirely sure of the purpose of this article. Is it simply one of bashing the Jesuits; one of calling for reform; twisting the words of a well-intentioned Jesuit at Georgetown? What is the purpose of this article? Maybe I’m so confused because I find the logic of the author…well, illogical or just simply pernicious. But more on that later. Secondly, what is the purpose of this discussion? Is it simply an argument of who is more conservative (i.e. No I’M more conservative than you!)? According to the Spiritual Exercises (#20), I should assume the best of the author and those posting here but wow. Seriously? Nevermind. In any case, I suggest the author do some serious research to discover the wonderful things that the Jesuits do, the wonderful varied spectrum of the Church that they represent and study the countless contributions Jesuits have had and continue to have on Catholic theology. Let me give you a poignant example: Pope Benedict XVI, considered by most (sources) to be a very conservative pope (not to mention a predecessor of an even more conservative JP II, for whom he worked as head of the CDF) quotes Jesuit Archaeologist/Theologian Pierre Teilhard de Chardin in his book Jesus of Nazareth on numerous occasions (check it out, it’s fascinating scholarly work on both parts). This is also a pope who was a dear friend and colleague of Karl Rahner, who I might add was magnificently influential (and silenced much like Chardin) preceding, during and after VII. This alone should put to rest a silly argument about conservatism but I know it won’t. In fact it will only spark more debate about something Catholics shouldn’t be arguing about in the first place. Rather, the dialogue should confront what it is that conservatism proposes to be really? Or what is it in the Catholic church? Or simply, “What is conservatism?” Does it mean how much one religious group does to chastise or discipline its “wayward liberal” members or how they discipline and chastise in general? Because in all of the chatting going-on I can’t say that it’s orthodoxy ya’ll are looking at. Finally, I would like to add that in the spirit (aggiornamento) of VII the Jesuits made significant effort to return to their Company roots and initial charism (FYI the Jesuits were founded collaboratively: Favre, Xavier, Ignatius and other Companions of Jesus). This would be a reason for the return of individual retreats during the Spiritual Exercises or the new translations of the Exercises and Ignatius’ biography. And the Jesuits continue to re-identify with said tradition not only in their schools and institutions but every time there is any meeting of superiors, novitiate staff, General Congregation, annual province gathering etc. Yes, the Jesuit order is declining in numbers, so is every religious order in the US and Europe except for maybe the Sisters of Charity. The truth of the matter or better the falsity of the author’s argument is that “conservatism”, which in the article and its responses looks like a forced pre-vatican II Catholicism, will save the Jesuits. No. A patience and profound understanding of the complexities of religious vocations is what will help religious vocations. Could a so called orthodoxy (I’m thinking Chesterton here) be made more apparent in all religious orders? Yes, but this does not inherently mean forced discipline or conservatism or a boost in vocation numbers. Rather, orthodoxy is much more didactic, meaning that we have to get men and women in novitiates/seminaries (wherever) before we can force them, I mean instruct them to be “conservative”. Such vocational growth (pre-novitiate/seminary) can only be left to prayer and perhaps that is the problem: too much arguing over who is the best conservative, a biblical pounding of one’s chest and too little genuine prayer, voicing the need for holy women and men in Catholic religious orders (or holy men and women in general). And this is the heart of a deeper problem, which is a lack of appropriate support for religious (i.e. holiness) and those who hear the call. An article such as the one posted does not do any good; it is defamatory, inflammatory, reactionary, instead of supportive, informative, truthful.

By: Joe DeVet

Joe DeVet — Fri, 29 Apr 2011 15:45:58 +0000

The comments remind me of my primary duty in regard to the rather corrupt condition of much of the SJ’s in USA is to pray for them…and for me…and for the Church.

I confess I mostly criticize them for having gone off the rails. This is, of course, the root cause of their dying off as a group here–or at least being mightily pruned.

The need is for more prayer. Amen.

By the way, while agreeing with the comment on the Dominicans being in better shape, they had better not be too smug. It’s a matter of place and group. Many Dominicans are off the rails in dissent as well. I spent a few days recently at a Dominican house of prayer, where the doxology was morphed into something like ‘Glory be to the Creator, and the Redeemer, and the Spirit of God.” The liturgical sign of the cross was also done in the same terms. It was very jarring to experience seemingly grown people doing this. It finally occurred to me: this is what happens when the contraceptive mentality is superimposed on the Trinity–it renders it sterile, and as such, contrary to the truth.

I’d say it’s bad luck to try to so remake God as a political foil, but they are. They won’t be missed. St. Dominic, pray for us. St. Thomas Aquinas, pray for us. St. Catherine of Siena, pray for us.

By: Dr. I. S. Alcordo, Ph.D.

Dr. I. S. Alcordo, Ph.D. — Fri, 29 Apr 2011 09:51:01 +0000

The various orders, including the Society of Jesus, of the Roman Catholic Church should go back to the teachings in the Bible and test their works using the Bible as the one and only standards for their theological and societal positions or doctrines.

For example the Pope’s current position on the death penalty for murderers run counter to the Biblical teaching that declares: “Whoever shed the blood of man shall his blood be shed.” God’s reason? “For in the image of God has God made man!” This was/is to instill in man the sanctity of human life that belongs to God and God alone.

At no time did Jesus, by words or deeds, abrogate that Law. The Church may pray or even forgive the murderer’s soul but she has not been authorized to teach the abrogation of God’s Law that demands the death penalty for murderers that Jesus, by words, deeds, implication had not abrogated nor supportable by exegesis or eisegesis.

By: Joe

Joe — Fri, 29 Apr 2011 04:02:35 +0000

Just visiting the Church of St Ignatius in SF, the gay vibe is off the hook. I’d wager it is close to impossible to succeed as a Jesuit candidate without hiding conservative beliefs. And I’d bet money if you are vocal in your affirmation of the Church’s teaching that gay sex is mortal sin your chances are probably zilch. But hey, let’s not be *too* hard on things, right? I mean there are good solid conservative Jesuit schools or organizations, and not just a few noble greying exceptions like Fessio and Schall, somewhere, right? Like… um, never mind.

By: Louis J. McCabe, S.J.

Louis J. McCabe, S.J. — Fri, 29 Apr 2011 01:13:30 +0000

I am a Jesuit because I heard Our Lord Jesus say to my heart while I was on retreat: “Will you be a Jesuit for me?” I answered immediately from my heart: “Yes, Lord, I will.” I am now the assistant to the provincial for vocations for the Jesuits of the Missouri Province so I am working all the time to identify, accompany and assess young men who feel that God is calling them to become Jesuits. I am in contact with many Catholic men from different backgounds and with different approaches to Church life. The main aspect of our assessment is whether the applicants know Jesus personally in their lives, are active members of the Catholic Church, and are responding to His call.
I beg Our Lord to send a whole bunch to join our novitiates each summer and I am very grateful to Our Lord for those who are responding generously to his call. I am assure you that while the number of Jesuits is smaller we are not disappearing from the face of the earth nor from the United States. I ask you to pray with me that Our Lord will keep calling many to all religious vocations: deaconate, priesthood, men and women religious.
I was grately encouraged by the inspiring words of our Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI, to our General Congregation: “As my predecessors have often told you, the Church needs you, counts on you, and continues to turn to you with confidence . . .” February 21, 2008

By: Patrick Sampson

Patrick Sampson — Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:27:30 +0000

It seems that only conservative Catholics write these articles and they suggest to the reader that they know God’s will and that they represent the fullness of the faith. They don’t! Conservative Catholics and fundamentalists protestants are paving the way for an America where basic social justice is forgotten and where whole parts of the Gospels are ignored. You can’t be pro-life and support wars, the death penalty, bigotry, and policies that make the American middle class poor.

By: Michael PS

Michael PS — Thu, 28 Apr 2011 17:19:54 +0000

Botolph

It is doubtful whether Pascal was actually a Jansenist heretic; there is nothing in his remarks on grace that cannot be found in the later Augustinians, like Berti, Bellelli and Cardinal Norris, who were vindicated against the charge of reviving Jansenism by Benedict XIV (Dum praeterito mense of 3rd July 1748). Their views on the Jesuit proponents of Molinism are instructive.

More to the point, most of the examples of the moral teaching of the Jesuits satirised in the Provincials was among the 65 propositions condemned by Bl Innocent XI on 2 March 1679.

By: Botolph

Botolph — Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:56:10 +0000

In reference to Blaise Pascal, whom I admire and respect in many ways, remember that he was (at least) of Jansenist tendencies [for those not familiar with this particular 'heresy' in the post Tridentine Catholic Church, it could be referred to as a "catholic Calvinism" or a calvinistic Catholicism].

The Jesuits were a bulwark against these harsh tendencies of the Jansenists, profoundly influenced by their Spiritual Exercises and the grace offered through Christ. This in turn became symbolized by ‘the Sacred Heart of Jesus’

There is no question of a need for reform, renewal along the hermeneutic of continuity prposed by both (Blessed) John Paul II and Pope Benedict. However there can be a harsh and even hard, hammer-like quality to some espousing what they believe to be ‘orthodoxy’ but actually mimics if not actually perpetuates a Jansenism even today.

We need Saint Ignatius’s wise ‘discernment of spirits’ to sort out things today, not sledge-hammers.

By: Stuart

Stuart — Thu, 28 Apr 2011 15:15:44 +0000

I think we’re seeing the same kind of decay in the Jesuits that we see throughout the Church. Were orthodoxy and faithfulness to Church teachings have become lax, numbers decline. I wonder how many vocations have been fostered at Georgetown recently? Certainly, few men will feel especially called to join an order that says it’s just as good to turn everything over to the laity. Moreover, what kind of priest would spend time trying to encourage vocations if he doesn’t value them?

In the end, though, the men who join the Society of Jesus will be more faithful than their predecessors. It will not disappear. I think Pope Benedict’s metaphor of the rose bush that must be pruned so that new growth can occur.

My only fear is that in the intervening lean years, the Jesuit universities will lose their Catholic character to such a degree that when the Jesuits once again have the faith to assert themselves it will be too late.