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	<title>Comments on: Anthropos, Enemy, and Bin Laden</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/02/anthropos-enemy-and-bin-laden/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
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		<title>By: [Verb]-ing the Death of Osama bin Laden &#171; Nate Navigates the Bible</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/02/anthropos-enemy-and-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-39252</link>
		<dc:creator>[Verb]-ing the Death of Osama bin Laden &#171; Nate Navigates the Bible</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 20:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=29564#comment-39252</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Joe Carter urges sobriety not out of sympathy for the deceased (&#8216;No one should shed a tear for bin Laden, for he received the justice due to one who shed innocent blood.&#8216;) but as a matter of guarding our hearts against the temptations of vindictiveness and wrath:  Yet our relief at his death must be tempered by a Christian view of humanity. We must never forget that the evil comes&#8230;from the heart of a fallen, sacred yet degraded, human being. If we are to preserve our own humanity we must not forget that our enemy differs from us in degree, not in kind. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Joe Carter urges sobriety not out of sympathy for the deceased (&#8216;No one should shed a tear for bin Laden, for he received the justice due to one who shed innocent blood.&#8216;) but as a matter of guarding our hearts against the temptations of vindictiveness and wrath:  Yet our relief at his death must be tempered by a Christian view of humanity. We must never forget that the evil comes&#8230;from the heart of a fallen, sacred yet degraded, human being. If we are to preserve our own humanity we must not forget that our enemy differs from us in degree, not in kind. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Were those who celebrated bin Laden&#8217;s death like those who celebrated the 9/11 atrocity? &#124; Philosophical Fragments</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/02/anthropos-enemy-and-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-39206</link>
		<dc:creator>Were those who celebrated bin Laden&#8217;s death like those who celebrated the 9/11 atrocity? &#124; Philosophical Fragments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2011 02:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=29564#comment-39206</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] celebrations were both (a) liberals and (b) Christians, including some conservative Christians like Joe Carter at First Things.  Many (though not Joe) likened these celebrations to the celebrations one could [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] celebrations were both (a) liberals and (b) Christians, including some conservative Christians like Joe Carter at First Things.  Many (though not Joe) likened these celebrations to the celebrations one could [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The World Wide (Religious) Web for Tuesday, May 3, 2011 &#171; GeorgePWood.com</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/02/anthropos-enemy-and-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-39164</link>
		<dc:creator>The World Wide (Religious) Web for Tuesday, May 3, 2011 &#171; GeorgePWood.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 16:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=29564#comment-39164</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] response to celebrate the death of any human being, even one so given over to the face of evil.” Joe Carter reminds us that “our relief at his death must be tempered by a Christian view of humanity. We [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] response to celebrate the death of any human being, even one so given over to the face of evil.” Joe Carter reminds us that “our relief at his death must be tempered by a Christian view of humanity. We [...]</p>
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		<title>By: pentamom</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/02/anthropos-enemy-and-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-39156</link>
		<dc:creator>pentamom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 15:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=29564#comment-39156</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t get the idea that you have to/should dehumanize your enemies in order to get angry enough at them to do what&#039;s necessary.

Who here gets more riled up against a rat than they do against a person who hurts someone they love? HUMAN evil is what makes people mad, not stupid animals doing what they do by nature.

It seems to me that maintaining the humanity of your enemies (reality) is not only truer, but more effective, than pretending they&#039;re inhuman. When does fantasy ever serve better than reality?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t get the idea that you have to/should dehumanize your enemies in order to get angry enough at them to do what&#8217;s necessary.</p>
<p>Who here gets more riled up against a rat than they do against a person who hurts someone they love? HUMAN evil is what makes people mad, not stupid animals doing what they do by nature.</p>
<p>It seems to me that maintaining the humanity of your enemies (reality) is not only truer, but more effective, than pretending they&#8217;re inhuman. When does fantasy ever serve better than reality?</p>
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		<title>By: David Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/02/anthropos-enemy-and-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-39151</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 14:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=29564#comment-39151</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&gt;The book is on the Marine Corps professional reading list and the view is widely shared in the Corps. 

I&#039;ve not looked at the Marine Corps reading list but I remember what used to be on the Air Force Chief of Staff reading list.  Some of it was excellent and some of it was modernist dreck.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;The book is on the Marine Corps professional reading list and the view is widely shared in the Corps. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve not looked at the Marine Corps reading list but I remember what used to be on the Air Force Chief of Staff reading list.  Some of it was excellent and some of it was modernist dreck.</p>
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		<title>By: David Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/02/anthropos-enemy-and-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-39148</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 14:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=29564#comment-39148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&gt;In the words of one of our patients, a war against subhuman vermin “has no honor.”

We&#039;ve never waged war against &quot;subhuman vermin.&quot;  But we have waged war against fallen humans whose evil is such that exposure to its deeds could make one physically sick.  Ask the men at Malmedy how they would describe the men of the Waffen SS.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;In the words of one of our patients, a war against subhuman vermin “has no honor.”</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve never waged war against &#8220;subhuman vermin.&#8221;  But we have waged war against fallen humans whose evil is such that exposure to its deeds could make one physically sick.  Ask the men at Malmedy how they would describe the men of the Waffen SS.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Carter</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/02/anthropos-enemy-and-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-39144</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Carter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 14:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=29564#comment-39144</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;strong&gt;Stuart&lt;/strong&gt; &lt;em&gt;Sometimes the enemy is inhuman. Sometimes men can be monsters.&lt;/em&gt;

Psychiatrist Jonathan Shay, author of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684813211/qid=1076362525/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-5717035-4558256?v=glance&amp;s=books&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Achilles In Vietnam: Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character&lt;/a&gt;, found that dehumanizing the enemy during the Vietnam war caused psychological damage to American troops: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Restoring honor to the enemy is an essential step in recovery from combat PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). While other things are obviously needed as well, the veteran&#039;s self-respect never fully recovers so long as he is unable to see the enemy as worthy. In the words of one of our patients, a war against subhuman vermin &quot;has no honor.&quot; This in true even in victory; in defeat, the dishonoring makes life unendurable. (Achilles, pg. 115)&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

The book is on the Marine Corps professional reading list and the view is widely shared in the Corps. But what do the Marines know compared to the armchair general Stuart Koehl, right?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Stuart</strong> <em>Sometimes the enemy is inhuman. Sometimes men can be monsters.</em></p>
<p>Psychiatrist Jonathan Shay, author of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684813211/qid=1076362525/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-5717035-4558256?v=glance&#038;s=books" rel="nofollow">Achilles In Vietnam: Combat Trauma and the Undoing of Character</a>, found that dehumanizing the enemy during the Vietnam war caused psychological damage to American troops: </p>
<blockquote><p>Restoring honor to the enemy is an essential step in recovery from combat PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). While other things are obviously needed as well, the veteran&#8217;s self-respect never fully recovers so long as he is unable to see the enemy as worthy. In the words of one of our patients, a war against subhuman vermin &#8220;has no honor.&#8221; This in true even in victory; in defeat, the dishonoring makes life unendurable. (Achilles, pg. 115)</p></blockquote>
<p>The book is on the Marine Corps professional reading list and the view is widely shared in the Corps. But what do the Marines know compared to the armchair general Stuart Koehl, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart Koehl</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/02/anthropos-enemy-and-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-39142</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart Koehl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 14:01:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=29564#comment-39142</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and it is all grace and all good. But I tend to believe him when he describes how he will do it. It has nothing to do with my preferences.&quot;

Amen, David.  When I hear drivel about not &quot;dehumanizing&quot; our enemies or describing monsters as monsters, I can only think of Uncle Billy Sherman saying, &quot;Tell such to the Marines, but not to me, who have seen such things&quot;.

In World War II, Dwight David Eisenhower was seriously concerned that the American GI would not have the capacity to hate the Germans intensely enough to allow them to do their job--which was, of course, killing Germans more efficiently than Germans could kill Americans.  And to a large extent he was right--Americans kind of liked Germans (well, not those SS guys, but the ordinary soldiers were OK), in fact liked them a lot more than our &quot;allies&quot; the French.  German civilians were a lot more like Americans--clean, industrious, polite.

It was not until we began capturing concentration camps that the attitude began to change.  Ike was just coming out the gate after visiting one camp, when he saw a young GI, ashen-faced after having tossed his breakfast on the ground.  &quot;Hate &#039;em enough now?&quot;, Ike asked.  The GI just nodded.

Sometimes the enemy is inhuman.  Sometimes men can be monsters.  Inability or unwillingness to recognize this simple truth disarms the righteous in the face of evil.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and it is all grace and all good. But I tend to believe him when he describes how he will do it. It has nothing to do with my preferences.&#8221;</p>
<p>Amen, David.  When I hear drivel about not &#8220;dehumanizing&#8221; our enemies or describing monsters as monsters, I can only think of Uncle Billy Sherman saying, &#8220;Tell such to the Marines, but not to me, who have seen such things&#8221;.</p>
<p>In World War II, Dwight David Eisenhower was seriously concerned that the American GI would not have the capacity to hate the Germans intensely enough to allow them to do their job&#8211;which was, of course, killing Germans more efficiently than Germans could kill Americans.  And to a large extent he was right&#8211;Americans kind of liked Germans (well, not those SS guys, but the ordinary soldiers were OK), in fact liked them a lot more than our &#8220;allies&#8221; the French.  German civilians were a lot more like Americans&#8211;clean, industrious, polite.</p>
<p>It was not until we began capturing concentration camps that the attitude began to change.  Ike was just coming out the gate after visiting one camp, when he saw a young GI, ashen-faced after having tossed his breakfast on the ground.  &#8220;Hate &#8216;em enough now?&#8221;, Ike asked.  The GI just nodded.</p>
<p>Sometimes the enemy is inhuman.  Sometimes men can be monsters.  Inability or unwillingness to recognize this simple truth disarms the righteous in the face of evil.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory K. Laughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/02/anthropos-enemy-and-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-39139</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory K. Laughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 13:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=29564#comment-39139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course, we should all rejoice if we find Osama bin Laden and Adolf Hitler in heaven because that will mean that He granted to them His grace.  Will you rejoice when He serves justice to the wicked?

&quot;After this I heard what seemed to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying out,

&#039;Hallelujah!
Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,
for his judgments are true and just;
for he has judged the great prostitute
who corrupted the earth with her immorality,
and has avenged on her the blood of his servants.&#039;

Once more they cried out,

&#039;Hallelujah!
The smoke from her goes up forever and ever.&#039;”

Revelation 19:1-3  (ESV)

The same Scriptures that teach we are not to hate, but to love our enemies also teach that the saints will rejoice and praise God when He delivers just judgment on the wicked.  Somehow we must reconcile the two.  We are not Marcionites who may throw out the verses that don&#039;t suit our own vision of who God should be; we are orthodox Christians who must come to understand and praise who God is.  We must not hate our enemies, yet it is good and proper to celebrate when justice visits the wicked.  Both are clearly presented in Scripture.  It is our obligation to figure out how to reconcile both and not to pick and choose which verses we accept and which we reject.

I believe God delivered His temporal judgment on Osama bin Laden by the hands of the Navy SEALS.  I am thankful to Him for doing so and rejoice.  Whatever eternal judgment He chooses to deliver is between Him and bin Laden.  Whatever He does will be a perfect application of His grace, mercy, love and justice and I will rejoice in that as well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, we should all rejoice if we find Osama bin Laden and Adolf Hitler in heaven because that will mean that He granted to them His grace.  Will you rejoice when He serves justice to the wicked?</p>
<p>&#8220;After this I heard what seemed to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying out,</p>
<p>&#8216;Hallelujah!<br />
Salvation and glory and power belong to our God,<br />
for his judgments are true and just;<br />
for he has judged the great prostitute<br />
who corrupted the earth with her immorality,<br />
and has avenged on her the blood of his servants.&#8217;</p>
<p>Once more they cried out,</p>
<p>&#8216;Hallelujah!<br />
The smoke from her goes up forever and ever.&#8217;”</p>
<p>Revelation 19:1-3  (ESV)</p>
<p>The same Scriptures that teach we are not to hate, but to love our enemies also teach that the saints will rejoice and praise God when He delivers just judgment on the wicked.  Somehow we must reconcile the two.  We are not Marcionites who may throw out the verses that don&#8217;t suit our own vision of who God should be; we are orthodox Christians who must come to understand and praise who God is.  We must not hate our enemies, yet it is good and proper to celebrate when justice visits the wicked.  Both are clearly presented in Scripture.  It is our obligation to figure out how to reconcile both and not to pick and choose which verses we accept and which we reject.</p>
<p>I believe God delivered His temporal judgment on Osama bin Laden by the hands of the Navy SEALS.  I am thankful to Him for doing so and rejoice.  Whatever eternal judgment He chooses to deliver is between Him and bin Laden.  Whatever He does will be a perfect application of His grace, mercy, love and justice and I will rejoice in that as well.</p>
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		<title>By: David Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/02/anthropos-enemy-and-bin-laden/comment-page-1/#comment-39133</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 11:30:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=29564#comment-39133</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&gt;Suppose, fellow Christians

These sort of questions explain a good deal of the sterility of modernish Christianity.

God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and it is all grace and all good.  But I tend to believe him when he describes how he will do it.  It has nothing to do with my preferences.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Suppose, fellow Christians</p>
<p>These sort of questions explain a good deal of the sterility of modernish Christianity.</p>
<p>God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and it is all grace and all good.  But I tend to believe him when he describes how he will do it.  It has nothing to do with my preferences.</p>
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