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	<title>Comments on: It’s All Greek to Them</title>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/16/it%e2%80%99s-all-greek-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-40912</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 May 2011 23:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30027#comment-40912</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I have yet to see a world were religious judgments are based on objetive truths, and not on subjective or personal preferences&lt;/i&gt;

Conservative religions are neither subjective nor based on personal preferences, but are based on clearly defined authorities, interpreted according to formally defined processes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I have yet to see a world were religious judgments are based on objetive truths, and not on subjective or personal preferences</i></p>
<p>Conservative religions are neither subjective nor based on personal preferences, but are based on clearly defined authorities, interpreted according to formally defined processes.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael PS</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/16/it%e2%80%99s-all-greek-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-40808</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 May 2011 06:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30027#comment-40808</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Andrew

You are right.  Unless we accept that acts of the understanding are specified by their object, no process of discursive reasoning will get us there]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew</p>
<p>You are right.  Unless we accept that acts of the understanding are specified by their object, no process of discursive reasoning will get us there</p>
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		<title>By: andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/16/it%e2%80%99s-all-greek-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-40806</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 May 2011 04:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30027#comment-40806</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[michael ps and pascal are correct.  at the end of all honest inquiry into the grounds of our knowledge, i suspect we&#039;re left with something like &quot;rational intuition.&quot;  which is plenty, if you ask me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>michael ps and pascal are correct.  at the end of all honest inquiry into the grounds of our knowledge, i suspect we&#8217;re left with something like &#8220;rational intuition.&#8221;  which is plenty, if you ask me.</p>
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		<title>By: Sergio Méndez</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/16/it%e2%80%99s-all-greek-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-40776</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergio Méndez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 May 2011 21:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30027#comment-40776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Moral and religious judgments are based on personal preference and feelings, not objective truths. How many times have you listened to a conversation on a religious or moral topic and heard, “I feel …” instead of “I think …” or “I believe …”&quot;

Oh well...I have yet to see a world were religious judgments are based on objetive truths, and not on subjective or personal preferences (and please don´t tell me about the existence of religious philosophers, apologists and such...I mean, most people in human history were commited to their religion just as a matter of tradition or emotions....thinking is more the exception for that case).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Moral and religious judgments are based on personal preference and feelings, not objective truths. How many times have you listened to a conversation on a religious or moral topic and heard, “I feel …” instead of “I think …” or “I believe …”&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh well&#8230;I have yet to see a world were religious judgments are based on objetive truths, and not on subjective or personal preferences (and please don´t tell me about the existence of religious philosophers, apologists and such&#8230;I mean, most people in human history were commited to their religion just as a matter of tradition or emotions&#8230;.thinking is more the exception for that case).</p>
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		<title>By: Roderick</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/16/it%e2%80%99s-all-greek-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-40670</link>
		<dc:creator>Roderick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 May 2011 01:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30027#comment-40670</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In 1979, a year after graduating high school, I was in Portugal, just north of Lisbon, visiting my aunt and uncle. I had wanted to spend a few days in Fatima and a dear friend of mine here in California, a Dominican priest, had made arrangements for me to stay with the cloistered Dominican Nuns of the Perpetual Rosary in Fatima. While there the nuns surprised me with what turned out to be a huge blessing. They had a Dutch priest also staying with them, and had made arrangements for him to celebrate a private Mass in the Fatima basilica. And the nuns had come to me to introduce me to this priest and to ask if I would like to serve at his Mass in the basilica! I was blown away!!!
Now the problem of a common language. He did not speak Portuguese or English, and I do not speak French or Dutch. So it was decided Mass would be celebrated in Latin (Novus Ordo -thank God I had the opportunity in the San Francisco bay area to learn and serve this Mass in Latin!)! I came so close to missing out on what became one of the most brilliant events and memories of my first stay in Fatima. I have not had an opportunity to serve a private (or public) Mass there since that first visit in 1979.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1979, a year after graduating high school, I was in Portugal, just north of Lisbon, visiting my aunt and uncle. I had wanted to spend a few days in Fatima and a dear friend of mine here in California, a Dominican priest, had made arrangements for me to stay with the cloistered Dominican Nuns of the Perpetual Rosary in Fatima. While there the nuns surprised me with what turned out to be a huge blessing. They had a Dutch priest also staying with them, and had made arrangements for him to celebrate a private Mass in the Fatima basilica. And the nuns had come to me to introduce me to this priest and to ask if I would like to serve at his Mass in the basilica! I was blown away!!!<br />
Now the problem of a common language. He did not speak Portuguese or English, and I do not speak French or Dutch. So it was decided Mass would be celebrated in Latin (Novus Ordo -thank God I had the opportunity in the San Francisco bay area to learn and serve this Mass in Latin!)! I came so close to missing out on what became one of the most brilliant events and memories of my first stay in Fatima. I have not had an opportunity to serve a private (or public) Mass there since that first visit in 1979.</p>
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		<title>By: sallyr</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/16/it%e2%80%99s-all-greek-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-40586</link>
		<dc:creator>sallyr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 May 2011 15:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30027#comment-40586</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While it may be that the natural law is &quot;written in our hearts&quot; and cannot be totally eclipsed, I think it&#039;s correct to be concerned that the language in which that law is written fails to be taught and explained.  

Human beings depend on each other to help to translate the universal law into practical judgments that conform with that truth.  On our own we are much more liable to twist that language to serve our other passions and whims.  

Bad example (or &quot;scandal&quot; in traditional terms) is a terrible injustice for the very reason that we all need encouragement in living a life in conformity with the natural law, and are susceptible to temptations to depart from its rigors.  This is all the more true in a culture unable to explain and defend the very idea of universal truths.  

I think it&#039;s likely that this is a trend that is self-limiting, and that eventually the force of truth will exert itself to right this problem.  There may be much un-necessary suffering in the meantime, however.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it may be that the natural law is &#8220;written in our hearts&#8221; and cannot be totally eclipsed, I think it&#8217;s correct to be concerned that the language in which that law is written fails to be taught and explained.  </p>
<p>Human beings depend on each other to help to translate the universal law into practical judgments that conform with that truth.  On our own we are much more liable to twist that language to serve our other passions and whims.  </p>
<p>Bad example (or &#8220;scandal&#8221; in traditional terms) is a terrible injustice for the very reason that we all need encouragement in living a life in conformity with the natural law, and are susceptible to temptations to depart from its rigors.  This is all the more true in a culture unable to explain and defend the very idea of universal truths.  </p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s likely that this is a trend that is self-limiting, and that eventually the force of truth will exert itself to right this problem.  There may be much un-necessary suffering in the meantime, however.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/16/it%e2%80%99s-all-greek-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-40578</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 May 2011 15:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30027#comment-40578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Blake

You miss Pascal’s point: reason can only draw conclusions from premises; all its premises are assumed (and all its conclusions are abstract)...We can only trust this “language of the heart.”&lt;/i&gt;

The current &quot;language of the heart&quot; employed by today&#039;s &quot;progressives&quot; is the language of THEIR heart...THEIR feelings...as if they were the only one with feelings.

They want something, so they &quot;employ the language of the heart&quot; - that is, they employ fallacies: argumentum ad hominem, ad misericordiam, ad populum.

They build arguments that rely on focusing (zooming in!) on one stakeholder&#039;s feelings. All the other stakeholders are ignored. If someone tries to bring up one of the other stakeholders&#039; points of view, they are shouted down. The most glaring, obvious example of this is the abortion debate, where we are told to empathize with a fictitious girl under a particular set of circumstances (chosen to maximize the sense of injustice and/or her suffering). We are not supposed to consider the situation from any other perspective - as if the only feelings that could possibly be relevant to the abortion debate were the feelings of this particular girl, and girls like her.

That&#039;s what &quot;the language of the heart&quot; is, when it is divorced from knowledge, reason, logic, or reality.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Blake</p>
<p>You miss Pascal’s point: reason can only draw conclusions from premises; all its premises are assumed (and all its conclusions are abstract)&#8230;We can only trust this “language of the heart.”</i></p>
<p>The current &#8220;language of the heart&#8221; employed by today&#8217;s &#8220;progressives&#8221; is the language of THEIR heart&#8230;THEIR feelings&#8230;as if they were the only one with feelings.</p>
<p>They want something, so they &#8220;employ the language of the heart&#8221; &#8211; that is, they employ fallacies: argumentum ad hominem, ad misericordiam, ad populum.</p>
<p>They build arguments that rely on focusing (zooming in!) on one stakeholder&#8217;s feelings. All the other stakeholders are ignored. If someone tries to bring up one of the other stakeholders&#8217; points of view, they are shouted down. The most glaring, obvious example of this is the abortion debate, where we are told to empathize with a fictitious girl under a particular set of circumstances (chosen to maximize the sense of injustice and/or her suffering). We are not supposed to consider the situation from any other perspective &#8211; as if the only feelings that could possibly be relevant to the abortion debate were the feelings of this particular girl, and girls like her.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what &#8220;the language of the heart&#8221; is, when it is divorced from knowledge, reason, logic, or reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael PS</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/16/it%e2%80%99s-all-greek-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-40525</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 May 2011 08:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30027#comment-40525</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Blake

You miss Pascal&#039;s point: reason can only draw conclusions from premises; all its premises are assumed (and all its conclusions are abstract)

As he says, we cannot arrive at the notions of &quot;space, time, motion, number&quot; by any process of deduction, because there are no principles more basic from which they can be deduced, nor language more simple in which they can be defined.  We can only trust this &quot;language of the heart.&quot;

In moral reasoning, this is equally obvious.  We cannot define all our terms and prove all our propositions, in a perpetual regress.  Moreover, in concrete cases, probable inference can never rise to certitude, unless we possess some faculty (Newman calls it the Illative sense; Pascal would have called it the heart) that enables us to see the convergence of our inferences, rather like Newton&#039;s celebrated Lemma of the circle and the inscribed polygon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blake</p>
<p>You miss Pascal&#8217;s point: reason can only draw conclusions from premises; all its premises are assumed (and all its conclusions are abstract)</p>
<p>As he says, we cannot arrive at the notions of &#8220;space, time, motion, number&#8221; by any process of deduction, because there are no principles more basic from which they can be deduced, nor language more simple in which they can be defined.  We can only trust this &#8220;language of the heart.&#8221;</p>
<p>In moral reasoning, this is equally obvious.  We cannot define all our terms and prove all our propositions, in a perpetual regress.  Moreover, in concrete cases, probable inference can never rise to certitude, unless we possess some faculty (Newman calls it the Illative sense; Pascal would have called it the heart) that enables us to see the convergence of our inferences, rather like Newton&#8217;s celebrated Lemma of the circle and the inscribed polygon.</p>
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		<title>By: TUESDAY MORNING EDITION &#124; ThePulp.it</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/16/it%e2%80%99s-all-greek-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-40523</link>
		<dc:creator>TUESDAY MORNING EDITION &#124; ThePulp.it</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 May 2011 05:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30027#comment-40523</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] It’s All Greek to Them: Young Adult Moral Illiteracy &#8211; Tom Neven, First Things [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It’s All Greek to Them: Young Adult Moral Illiteracy &#8211; Tom Neven, First Things [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bret Lythgoe</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/05/16/it%e2%80%99s-all-greek-to-them/comment-page-1/#comment-40513</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret Lythgoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 May 2011 02:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30027#comment-40513</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Certainly, there seems to be an alarming lack of logical thinking. But we also must remember that, humans evolved as emotional/rational hybrids, if you will. We must make a conscious commitment, to exercise our reason, more effectively.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly, there seems to be an alarming lack of logical thinking. But we also must remember that, humans evolved as emotional/rational hybrids, if you will. We must make a conscious commitment, to exercise our reason, more effectively.</p>
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