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	<title>Comments on: Sociology and Other &#8216;Meathead&#8217; Majors</title>
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		<title>By: FRC Blog &#187; The Social Conservative Review: The Insider&#8217;s Guide to Pro-Family News&#8211;June 9, 2011</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/06/01/sociology-and-other-meathead-majors/comment-page-1/#comment-42633</link>
		<dc:creator>FRC Blog &#187; The Social Conservative Review: The Insider&#8217;s Guide to Pro-Family News&#8211;June 9, 2011</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2011 20:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] &#8220;Sociology and Other &#8216;Meathead&#8217; Majors,&#8221; Joe Carter, First Things [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;Sociology and Other &#8216;Meathead&#8217; Majors,&#8221; Joe Carter, First Things [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Edward B. Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/06/01/sociology-and-other-meathead-majors/comment-page-1/#comment-42291</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward B. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2011 14:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30495#comment-42291</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d like to take a moment away from the WMS debate and relate my experience from the only sociology course I took in college. In the fall semester of 1987 I took SOC 165 &quot;Social Problems&quot;. I could tell from the textbooks assigned  that he was either a conservative, or a liberal who wanted to thrash conservative ideas. The books were; Losing Ground by Charles Murray, Crime &amp; Public Policy by James Q. Wilson, and The Ultimate Resource by Julian Simon. I did not enter the class merely to confirm my biases, I was very curious about how the class was going to be taught. Of course the content of each book was covered in time appropriate detail. I don&#039;t remember any dramatic class arguments over the content which might be expected in this environment. In addition to addressing the texts he offered historical, philosophical, and other background information on how &quot;problems&quot; become identified as &quot;social&quot;.
I simply offer this as anecdotal evidence that that not all have been absorbed into the collective. While I have no idea my teacher has been skinned and eaten yet, I know there are those around who were trying to tenderize him! 

@Tavener
Spot on: God dead=Humanity dead
Without God to guide us we are merely left to our narcissistic ruminations and identity politics. Thus is the slough of despond in the &quot;humanities&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to take a moment away from the WMS debate and relate my experience from the only sociology course I took in college. In the fall semester of 1987 I took SOC 165 &#8220;Social Problems&#8221;. I could tell from the textbooks assigned  that he was either a conservative, or a liberal who wanted to thrash conservative ideas. The books were; Losing Ground by Charles Murray, Crime &amp; Public Policy by James Q. Wilson, and The Ultimate Resource by Julian Simon. I did not enter the class merely to confirm my biases, I was very curious about how the class was going to be taught. Of course the content of each book was covered in time appropriate detail. I don&#8217;t remember any dramatic class arguments over the content which might be expected in this environment. In addition to addressing the texts he offered historical, philosophical, and other background information on how &#8220;problems&#8221; become identified as &#8220;social&#8221;.<br />
I simply offer this as anecdotal evidence that that not all have been absorbed into the collective. While I have no idea my teacher has been skinned and eaten yet, I know there are those around who were trying to tenderize him! </p>
<p>@Tavener<br />
Spot on: God dead=Humanity dead<br />
Without God to guide us we are merely left to our narcissistic ruminations and identity politics. Thus is the slough of despond in the &#8220;humanities&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/06/01/sociology-and-other-meathead-majors/comment-page-1/#comment-42271</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2011 03:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30495#comment-42271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;“Men don’t have a right to control their own reproductive rights – if by control you mean “kill any babies they don’t want”.”

I´ve posted an answer before to you Blake, but it got erased I don´t know why. Men reproductive rights don´t have anything to to do with abortion. &lt;/i&gt;

Women want the good parts about equality, but not the responsibilities.

It&#039;s their body, so they shouldn&#039;t have anything they don&#039;t want in it. Is that how the reasoning goes?

Well, it&#039;s their body, so they should take some responsibility for not putting babies into it.

Are women grown-ups who are ready for freedom, or are they irresponsible little children who need a guardian?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“Men don’t have a right to control their own reproductive rights – if by control you mean “kill any babies they don’t want”.”</p>
<p>I´ve posted an answer before to you Blake, but it got erased I don´t know why. Men reproductive rights don´t have anything to to do with abortion. </i></p>
<p>Women want the good parts about equality, but not the responsibilities.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s their body, so they shouldn&#8217;t have anything they don&#8217;t want in it. Is that how the reasoning goes?</p>
<p>Well, it&#8217;s their body, so they should take some responsibility for not putting babies into it.</p>
<p>Are women grown-ups who are ready for freedom, or are they irresponsible little children who need a guardian?</p>
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		<title>By: Sergio Méndez</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/06/01/sociology-and-other-meathead-majors/comment-page-1/#comment-42234</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergio Méndez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 18:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30495#comment-42234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Men don’t have a right to control their own reproductive rights – if by control you mean “kill any babies they don’t want”.&quot;

I´ve posted an answer before to you Blake, but it got erased I don´t know why. Men reproductive rights don´t have anything to to do with abortion. Specially considering that the zgyote/fetus happens to be inside WOMEN bodies, not men ones. That is some real biological difference that you seem to have forgotten concerning that debate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Men don’t have a right to control their own reproductive rights – if by control you mean “kill any babies they don’t want”.&#8221;</p>
<p>I´ve posted an answer before to you Blake, but it got erased I don´t know why. Men reproductive rights don´t have anything to to do with abortion. Specially considering that the zgyote/fetus happens to be inside WOMEN bodies, not men ones. That is some real biological difference that you seem to have forgotten concerning that debate.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/06/01/sociology-and-other-meathead-majors/comment-page-1/#comment-42207</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 15:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30495#comment-42207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Again, the problem is WHICH differences you claim are natural and which differences you claim are created by culture (apparently you don´t believe any differences are cultural). &lt;/i&gt;

In the real world, women have babies.

In the world of &quot;Gender Studies&quot;, it&#039;s somehow normal and natural to pretend women don&#039;t have babies - even if that means killing live babies and lying to cover up the evidence that women do in fact have bodies that have significant biological, physical, emotional, chemical, neurological, social, and spiritual differences from men.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Again, the problem is WHICH differences you claim are natural and which differences you claim are created by culture (apparently you don´t believe any differences are cultural). </i></p>
<p>In the real world, women have babies.</p>
<p>In the world of &#8220;Gender Studies&#8221;, it&#8217;s somehow normal and natural to pretend women don&#8217;t have babies &#8211; even if that means killing live babies and lying to cover up the evidence that women do in fact have bodies that have significant biological, physical, emotional, chemical, neurological, social, and spiritual differences from men.</p>
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		<title>By: Sergio Méndez</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/06/01/sociology-and-other-meathead-majors/comment-page-1/#comment-42188</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergio Méndez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 13:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30495#comment-42188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tony:

&quot;what you cannot say in the WMS class is that those differences are natural and help to determine what kinds of cultures human beings create, and what kinds they don’t. In other words, you cannot speak common sense.&quot;

Again, the problem is WHICH differences you claim are natural and which differences you claim are created by culture (apparently you don´t believe any differences are cultural). And yes, in WMS many of the pretended &quot;natural&quot; differences are not accepted as such. Of your list I will say 1, 2, 4, 7 are utter nonsense, and of course hardly &quot;natural&quot; (I wonder if 7 leads you to some orwellian nightmare where men and women are equal, but men are more equal than women). 3 is true to a certain point (especially considering that in modern services society physical labor is hardly the only form of labor), 5 I don´t know what is supposed to mean, 6 is debatable (specially the reasons that denied women a participation in scientific enterprises), 9 is ridiculous in the light of stuff like rape statistics (you knew women are more likely to be raped by their sentimental partners, husband, bf etc, than strangers?) and 10 is just a mischaracterization of feminist position and criticism of gender roles.

So, &quot;common sense&quot;, my....
.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony:</p>
<p>&#8220;what you cannot say in the WMS class is that those differences are natural and help to determine what kinds of cultures human beings create, and what kinds they don’t. In other words, you cannot speak common sense.&#8221;</p>
<p>Again, the problem is WHICH differences you claim are natural and which differences you claim are created by culture (apparently you don´t believe any differences are cultural). And yes, in WMS many of the pretended &#8220;natural&#8221; differences are not accepted as such. Of your list I will say 1, 2, 4, 7 are utter nonsense, and of course hardly &#8220;natural&#8221; (I wonder if 7 leads you to some orwellian nightmare where men and women are equal, but men are more equal than women). 3 is true to a certain point (especially considering that in modern services society physical labor is hardly the only form of labor), 5 I don´t know what is supposed to mean, 6 is debatable (specially the reasons that denied women a participation in scientific enterprises), 9 is ridiculous in the light of stuff like rape statistics (you knew women are more likely to be raped by their sentimental partners, husband, bf etc, than strangers?) and 10 is just a mischaracterization of feminist position and criticism of gender roles.</p>
<p>So, &#8220;common sense&#8221;, my&#8230;.<br />
.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/06/01/sociology-and-other-meathead-majors/comment-page-1/#comment-42174</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 10:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30495#comment-42174</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;While I think there are differences between men and women, I think women deserve to go to college, be able to work or stay at home if they want, control their own reproductive rights, be able to be preachers, and have equal rights with men.&lt;/i&gt;

Men don&#039;t have a right to control their own reproductive rights - if by control you mean &quot;kill any babies they don&#039;t want&quot;.

And women can be preachers, in any system where preacher is not a gendered role. Or are you saying that there should be no such thing as gendered roles? Are you saying women have the right to be patriarchs? Do men also have the right to be mothers? Ha - thought not. Here we are again: back at the androgynous ideal - the dream of having &quot;no gender roles&quot; (which turns out in truth to mean that individuals within the system can appropriate the freedom to simply ignore or subvert anything they don&#039;t like, if it happens to be gendered - which in turn tends to work out to &quot;people should have the right to destroy any traditions they see that they don&#039;t like, because traditions are just bad&quot;.....)

Too bad gender roles are not a &quot;choice&quot;. All the pretending in the world will not change the fact that the evil patriarchal structure is inherently more stable and secure than matriarchies - &lt;b&gt;for structural reasons&lt;/b&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>While I think there are differences between men and women, I think women deserve to go to college, be able to work or stay at home if they want, control their own reproductive rights, be able to be preachers, and have equal rights with men.</i></p>
<p>Men don&#8217;t have a right to control their own reproductive rights &#8211; if by control you mean &#8220;kill any babies they don&#8217;t want&#8221;.</p>
<p>And women can be preachers, in any system where preacher is not a gendered role. Or are you saying that there should be no such thing as gendered roles? Are you saying women have the right to be patriarchs? Do men also have the right to be mothers? Ha &#8211; thought not. Here we are again: back at the androgynous ideal &#8211; the dream of having &#8220;no gender roles&#8221; (which turns out in truth to mean that individuals within the system can appropriate the freedom to simply ignore or subvert anything they don&#8217;t like, if it happens to be gendered &#8211; which in turn tends to work out to &#8220;people should have the right to destroy any traditions they see that they don&#8217;t like, because traditions are just bad&#8221;&#8230;..)</p>
<p>Too bad gender roles are not a &#8220;choice&#8221;. All the pretending in the world will not change the fact that the evil patriarchal structure is inherently more stable and secure than matriarchies &#8211; <b>for structural reasons</b>.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/06/01/sociology-and-other-meathead-majors/comment-page-1/#comment-42144</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2011 01:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30495#comment-42144</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can understand why a lot of women are scared of admitting there are differences between men and women.  A lot of people think that these differences make women the inferior sex, and that a woman&#039;s role should be strictly defined in the home and with children, and that women should be submissive.  While I think there are differences between men and women, I think women deserve to go to college, be able to work or stay at home if they want, control their own reproductive rights, be able to be preachers, and have equal rights with men.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can understand why a lot of women are scared of admitting there are differences between men and women.  A lot of people think that these differences make women the inferior sex, and that a woman&#8217;s role should be strictly defined in the home and with children, and that women should be submissive.  While I think there are differences between men and women, I think women deserve to go to college, be able to work or stay at home if they want, control their own reproductive rights, be able to be preachers, and have equal rights with men.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/06/01/sociology-and-other-meathead-majors/comment-page-1/#comment-42129</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2011 23:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30495#comment-42129</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If I may elaborate on a few points.....

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;3. The marked differences between men and women in bodily strength make some division of labor a necessity. Heck, I have a LAWN that no woman in my acquaintance could mow — certainly not my wife or my daughter.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If we wanted to, we could raise women who could mow the lawn and keep pace with the boys....I&#039;ve met such women, with strong upper arms from many workouts....but such women would never give birth.

It is the act of giving birth that seals a woman&#039;s fate: if she will reproduce, she must allow herself to become vulnerable. Feminists want to get rid of all vulnerability by simply legislating it away - they will be breadwinners, and hire people to raise their children, and they will pass laws forcing the state to give them what they need, instead of having to trust a man to provide for them. Hence socialism is necessary, because what they want is incompatible with a stable, trustworthy family unit.

&lt;i&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;9. The feminist movement is in part responsible for violence against women, and the unnecessary deaths of women, because feminists have consistently demeaned the one institution most likely to protect a woman from felony crime — marriage&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

There&#039;s another institution, besides marriage, that protects women from violence - and that has been trashed by the &#039;sexual revolution&#039;. I am speaking of a thing called &quot;the community&quot;. A safe woman is a woman who lives in a community that can and will intervene to protect her - not by breaking up her marriage, but by helping to preserve it! 

In a healthy community, the men teach the groom and the women teach the bride how to work things out. But in today&#039;s culture we have severed those connections, and all the women will  teach the other women is how to flee - even though that&#039;s statistically more dangerous for a woman than staying and trying to work things out. Anger management classes work, and yet feminists still push the failed &quot;shelter&quot; approach - an  approach that creates a revolving-door situation for the women involved. and we do not value them. Meanwhile, people pay lots of money for therapy and self-help books.

&lt;i&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;10. Feminists have slandered the housewife for over a hundred years. &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

Ever wonder why they call themselves &quot;feminists&quot;, when they view femininity as something that a woman needs to &quot;outgrow&quot;?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I may elaborate on a few points&#8230;..</p>
<blockquote><p><i>3. The marked differences between men and women in bodily strength make some division of labor a necessity. Heck, I have a LAWN that no woman in my acquaintance could mow — certainly not my wife or my daughter.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>If we wanted to, we could raise women who could mow the lawn and keep pace with the boys&#8230;.I&#8217;ve met such women, with strong upper arms from many workouts&#8230;.but such women would never give birth.</p>
<p>It is the act of giving birth that seals a woman&#8217;s fate: if she will reproduce, she must allow herself to become vulnerable. Feminists want to get rid of all vulnerability by simply legislating it away &#8211; they will be breadwinners, and hire people to raise their children, and they will pass laws forcing the state to give them what they need, instead of having to trust a man to provide for them. Hence socialism is necessary, because what they want is incompatible with a stable, trustworthy family unit.</p>
<p><i><br />
<blockquote>9. The feminist movement is in part responsible for violence against women, and the unnecessary deaths of women, because feminists have consistently demeaned the one institution most likely to protect a woman from felony crime — marriage</p></blockquote>
<p></i></p>
<p>There&#8217;s another institution, besides marriage, that protects women from violence &#8211; and that has been trashed by the &#8216;sexual revolution&#8217;. I am speaking of a thing called &#8220;the community&#8221;. A safe woman is a woman who lives in a community that can and will intervene to protect her &#8211; not by breaking up her marriage, but by helping to preserve it! </p>
<p>In a healthy community, the men teach the groom and the women teach the bride how to work things out. But in today&#8217;s culture we have severed those connections, and all the women will  teach the other women is how to flee &#8211; even though that&#8217;s statistically more dangerous for a woman than staying and trying to work things out. Anger management classes work, and yet feminists still push the failed &#8220;shelter&#8221; approach &#8211; an  approach that creates a revolving-door situation for the women involved. and we do not value them. Meanwhile, people pay lots of money for therapy and self-help books.</p>
<p><i><br />
<blockquote>10. Feminists have slandered the housewife for over a hundred years. </p></blockquote>
<p></i></p>
<p>Ever wonder why they call themselves &#8220;feminists&#8221;, when they view femininity as something that a woman needs to &#8220;outgrow&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Z.</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/06/01/sociology-and-other-meathead-majors/comment-page-1/#comment-42128</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Z.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=30495#comment-42128</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[JB in CA

&quot; . . . the fact/value distinction is pure humebug.&quot;

You reply: &quot;You kant be serious.&quot;

You have a locke on humor.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JB in CA</p>
<p>&#8221; . . . the fact/value distinction is pure humebug.&#8221;</p>
<p>You reply: &#8220;You kant be serious.&#8221;</p>
<p>You have a locke on humor.</p>
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