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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;The Rules Sometimes Aren&#8217;t Enough&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/07/28/the-rules-sometimes-arent-enough/</link>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/07/28/the-rules-sometimes-arent-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-46549</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=32436#comment-46549</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;The author is basically saying we are all drug addicts because sexual pleasure is a ‘natural high’….&lt;/i&gt;

And you think that therefore the author is saying we should naturally rework all the laws in our nation so that we can prioritize that natural addiction and make it the center of our life?

I don&#039;t think that is what the author was saying.

I think the author was urging us NOT to be slaves to our passions, but to give in to passion only when it is appropriate.

Now, whether or not it&#039;s appropriate for gays to be with each other (monogamously or not) is a question I simply don&#039;t know the answer to. But even if it were true that gays should (a) be with each other and (b) be monogamous, that has nothing to do with the marriage debate, unless one has specific assumptions about the purpose of marriage that basically produce a tautology.

And the rules of logic say you can&#039;t use your conclusion as a premise to support your conclusion. It doesn&#039;t follow logically.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The author is basically saying we are all drug addicts because sexual pleasure is a ‘natural high’….</i></p>
<p>And you think that therefore the author is saying we should naturally rework all the laws in our nation so that we can prioritize that natural addiction and make it the center of our life?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that is what the author was saying.</p>
<p>I think the author was urging us NOT to be slaves to our passions, but to give in to passion only when it is appropriate.</p>
<p>Now, whether or not it&#8217;s appropriate for gays to be with each other (monogamously or not) is a question I simply don&#8217;t know the answer to. But even if it were true that gays should (a) be with each other and (b) be monogamous, that has nothing to do with the marriage debate, unless one has specific assumptions about the purpose of marriage that basically produce a tautology.</p>
<p>And the rules of logic say you can&#8217;t use your conclusion as a premise to support your conclusion. It doesn&#8217;t follow logically.</p>
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		<title>By: Boonton</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/07/28/the-rules-sometimes-arent-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-46341</link>
		<dc:creator>Boonton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 08:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=32436#comment-46341</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The same&quot;?  Is my marriage &#039;the same&#039; as the one Anna Nicole Smith had to that old rich guy?  Is yours?  Seems to me that all marriages will share some traits and won&#039;t share other traits.

But I think you&#039;re missing the point here, and its a very interesting point.  The author is basically saying we are all drug addicts because sexual pleasure is a &#039;natural high&#039;....the word &#039;natural&#039; doesn&#039;t alter the fact that its a high.  In one shot she instantly makes sense of the fact that many religions have had a cult of celibacy and also shoots down the meme that &#039;marriage is about children&#039;.  She is saying that to the degree we engage in any sexual pleasure at all, we are likely to become addicts hence if we are going down that road better to go down the &#039;methadone clinic&#039; road rather than &#039;shooting up in the back ally&#039;.  SSM shares the trait wish DSM of being a more positive place to channel &#039;sex addiction&#039; than &#039;the hookup culture&#039;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The same&#8221;?  Is my marriage &#8216;the same&#8217; as the one Anna Nicole Smith had to that old rich guy?  Is yours?  Seems to me that all marriages will share some traits and won&#8217;t share other traits.</p>
<p>But I think you&#8217;re missing the point here, and its a very interesting point.  The author is basically saying we are all drug addicts because sexual pleasure is a &#8216;natural high&#8217;&#8230;.the word &#8216;natural&#8217; doesn&#8217;t alter the fact that its a high.  In one shot she instantly makes sense of the fact that many religions have had a cult of celibacy and also shoots down the meme that &#8216;marriage is about children&#8217;.  She is saying that to the degree we engage in any sexual pleasure at all, we are likely to become addicts hence if we are going down that road better to go down the &#8216;methadone clinic&#8217; road rather than &#8216;shooting up in the back ally&#8217;.  SSM shares the trait wish DSM of being a more positive place to channel &#8216;sex addiction&#8217; than &#8216;the hookup culture&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/07/28/the-rules-sometimes-arent-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-46339</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 03:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=32436#comment-46339</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Hate to open this door but its actually not a bad argument for SSM. Basically its saying that most humans are destined to be ‘addicted to sex chemicals’ for at least a good portion of their adult life.&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t think anyone is arguing that gay people &quot;choose&quot; to feel homosexual desires (just as presumably nobody &quot;chooses&quot; to lust after dead bodies, small children, siblings, beasts, or anything else, appropriate or not - the whole point of lust is that it is an appetite, and beyond the control).

But whether gay sex is normal, natural, inevitable, good, or bad, has nothing to do with the question of whether their union is or can ever be the same as a marriage.

You&#039;re welcome to believe that the differences between &quot;same sex marriage&quot; vs. real marriage are insignificant, but you&#039;re not welcome to mandate that I believe they&#039;re insignificant, because it&#039;s quite demonstrable that these differences are &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; in fact insignificant.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Hate to open this door but its actually not a bad argument for SSM. Basically its saying that most humans are destined to be ‘addicted to sex chemicals’ for at least a good portion of their adult life.</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone is arguing that gay people &#8220;choose&#8221; to feel homosexual desires (just as presumably nobody &#8220;chooses&#8221; to lust after dead bodies, small children, siblings, beasts, or anything else, appropriate or not &#8211; the whole point of lust is that it is an appetite, and beyond the control).</p>
<p>But whether gay sex is normal, natural, inevitable, good, or bad, has nothing to do with the question of whether their union is or can ever be the same as a marriage.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re welcome to believe that the differences between &#8220;same sex marriage&#8221; vs. real marriage are insignificant, but you&#8217;re not welcome to mandate that I believe they&#8217;re insignificant, because it&#8217;s quite demonstrable that these differences are <i>not</i> in fact insignificant.</p>
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		<title>By: Boonton</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/07/28/the-rules-sometimes-arent-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-46337</link>
		<dc:creator>Boonton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Aug 2011 01:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=32436#comment-46337</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hate to open this door but its actually not a bad argument for SSM.  Basically its saying that most humans are destined to be &#039;addicted to sex chemicals&#039; for at least a good portion of their adult life.  Both DSM and SSM then provide a secular purpose of managing that addiction in the least possible destructive way...call it a type of methadone clinic approach.  Best to avoid the addiction but if not do it here where you&#039;re less likely to get hurt or hurt others.....wonder if anyone said anything a bit along those lines in the Bible?  Hmmmmmm....naaa can&#039;t be.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hate to open this door but its actually not a bad argument for SSM.  Basically its saying that most humans are destined to be &#8216;addicted to sex chemicals&#8217; for at least a good portion of their adult life.  Both DSM and SSM then provide a secular purpose of managing that addiction in the least possible destructive way&#8230;call it a type of methadone clinic approach.  Best to avoid the addiction but if not do it here where you&#8217;re less likely to get hurt or hurt others&#8230;..wonder if anyone said anything a bit along those lines in the Bible?  Hmmmmmm&#8230;.naaa can&#8217;t be.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/07/28/the-rules-sometimes-arent-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-46269</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jul 2011 20:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=32436#comment-46269</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think this author captures it all in the single recognition that &quot;love is sacrificial, not selfish&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this author captures it all in the single recognition that &#8220;love is sacrificial, not selfish&#8221;.</p>
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