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	<title>Comments on: In Defense of a NASCAR Prayer</title>
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		<title>By: Jesme</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/08/04/in-defense-of-a-nascar-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-46759</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 18:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Oops....come to think, NASCARs aren&#039;t fuel-injected, are they?  I believe they still use carburetors...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops&#8230;.come to think, NASCARs aren&#8217;t fuel-injected, are they?  I believe they still use carburetors&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jesme</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/08/04/in-defense-of-a-nascar-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-46758</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Aug 2011 17:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Count me as one who found the prayer silly but not at all sacrilegious.  I still don&#039;t quite understand what all the fuss is about...maybe it&#039;s because, as a black Baptist, I&#039;m used to hearing prayers with an element of humor injected.  But usually not fuel-injected...:-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Count me as one who found the prayer silly but not at all sacrilegious.  I still don&#8217;t quite understand what all the fuss is about&#8230;maybe it&#8217;s because, as a black Baptist, I&#8217;m used to hearing prayers with an element of humor injected.  But usually not fuel-injected&#8230;:-)</p>
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		<title>By: JDD</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/08/04/in-defense-of-a-nascar-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-46608</link>
		<dc:creator>JDD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 16:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[King,


Outstanding Chesterton quote - thanks for that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>King,</p>
<p>Outstanding Chesterton quote &#8211; thanks for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Friday Highlights &#124; Pseudo-Polymath</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/08/04/in-defense-of-a-nascar-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-46599</link>
		<dc:creator>Friday Highlights &#124; Pseudo-Polymath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 15:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] That (or A if you missed it) public prayer at NASCAR defended. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] That (or A if you missed it) public prayer at NASCAR defended. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stones Cry Out - If they keep silent&#8230; &#187; Things Heard: e184v5</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/08/04/in-defense-of-a-nascar-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-46598</link>
		<dc:creator>Stones Cry Out - If they keep silent&#8230; &#187; Things Heard: e184v5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 15:36:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=32697#comment-46598</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] That (or A if you missed it) public prayer at NASCAR defended. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] That (or A if you missed it) public prayer at NASCAR defended. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: King</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/08/04/in-defense-of-a-nascar-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-46563</link>
		<dc:creator>King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 12:39:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=32697#comment-46563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If your prayers to God are not sometimes humorous, you are not giving yourself completely to Him.  Setting aside whether the pastor&#039;s NASCAR prayer was inappropriate, we must acknowledge that a humorous and lighthearted connection to God is not by definition &quot;irreverent.&quot;

The lightness of being is part of the human condition, an irrepressible and healthy part of who we are.  We invite God into that sector of our souls, as with all things.  We are not mocking the greatness of the divine, we are humbly asking Him to condescend to our condition so that we may be divinely inspired and informed in all things through Him.

At the same time, of course humor can be dangerous -- particularly the biting, ironic variety with which we are accustomed in postmodernity.  The pastor was communicating his ineffable joy best his meager poetry and &quot;redneck&quot; patois could.  Considering the unavoidable, jaw-dropping irreverence we are used to enduring in the culture at large, considering its ubiquity and its constant urge to outdo itself; calling the pastor&#039;s prayer &quot;irreverent&quot; in such a context is wildly incongruous relative to the age.  The man obviously, ecstatically loves the Lord.  Condemnation for irreverence should include at a minimum some hint of the Christ-hating malice that has poisoned every cultural precinct of the era without any means to escape it.  God bless Pastor Nelms.

We &quot;reverent&quot; are used to deploying a single tone when addressing God, and, while that may assist us from overstepping our station, it is not adequate to His comprehensive dominion.  Shall the preacher make no instructive jokes from the pulpit?  Is all laughter blasphemous from the pews?  I shudder to imagine.  We learn best, we are at our most relaxed and free when we are filled with mirth, the very Spirit of the Lord.  &quot;I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.&quot;

Chesterton concludes &lt;i&gt;Orthodoxy&lt;/i&gt; this way:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;i&gt;Joy, which was the small publicity of the pagan, is the gigantic secret of the Christian. And as I close this chaotic volume I open again the strange small book from which all Christianity came; and I am again haunted by a kind of confirmation. The tremendous figure which fills the Gospels towers in this respect, as in every other, above all the thinkers who ever thought themselves tall. His pathos was natural, almost casual. The Stoics, ancient and modern, were proud of concealing their tears. He never concealed His tears; He showed them plainly on His open face at any daily sight, such as the far sight of His native city. Yet He concealed something. Solemn supermen and imperial diplomatists are proud of restraining their anger. He never restrained His anger. He flung furniture down the front steps of the Temple, and asked men how they expected to escape the damnation of Hell. Yet He restrained something. I say it with reverence; there was in that shattering personality a thread that must be called shyness. There was something that He hid from all men when He went up a mountain to pray. There was something that He covered constantly by abrupt silence or impetuous isolation. There was some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth; and I have sometimes fancied that it was His mirth.&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You know what would need in here?  A good orthodox Jew to inject this staid Puritanical panel of judgment with some rabbinical humor.  They have outclassed us younger brothers in this regard for centuries.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If your prayers to God are not sometimes humorous, you are not giving yourself completely to Him.  Setting aside whether the pastor&#8217;s NASCAR prayer was inappropriate, we must acknowledge that a humorous and lighthearted connection to God is not by definition &#8220;irreverent.&#8221;</p>
<p>The lightness of being is part of the human condition, an irrepressible and healthy part of who we are.  We invite God into that sector of our souls, as with all things.  We are not mocking the greatness of the divine, we are humbly asking Him to condescend to our condition so that we may be divinely inspired and informed in all things through Him.</p>
<p>At the same time, of course humor can be dangerous &#8212; particularly the biting, ironic variety with which we are accustomed in postmodernity.  The pastor was communicating his ineffable joy best his meager poetry and &#8220;redneck&#8221; patois could.  Considering the unavoidable, jaw-dropping irreverence we are used to enduring in the culture at large, considering its ubiquity and its constant urge to outdo itself; calling the pastor&#8217;s prayer &#8220;irreverent&#8221; in such a context is wildly incongruous relative to the age.  The man obviously, ecstatically loves the Lord.  Condemnation for irreverence should include at a minimum some hint of the Christ-hating malice that has poisoned every cultural precinct of the era without any means to escape it.  God bless Pastor Nelms.</p>
<p>We &#8220;reverent&#8221; are used to deploying a single tone when addressing God, and, while that may assist us from overstepping our station, it is not adequate to His comprehensive dominion.  Shall the preacher make no instructive jokes from the pulpit?  Is all laughter blasphemous from the pews?  I shudder to imagine.  We learn best, we are at our most relaxed and free when we are filled with mirth, the very Spirit of the Lord.  &#8220;I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.&#8221;</p>
<p>Chesterton concludes <i>Orthodoxy</i> this way:</p>
<blockquote><p>
<i>Joy, which was the small publicity of the pagan, is the gigantic secret of the Christian. And as I close this chaotic volume I open again the strange small book from which all Christianity came; and I am again haunted by a kind of confirmation. The tremendous figure which fills the Gospels towers in this respect, as in every other, above all the thinkers who ever thought themselves tall. His pathos was natural, almost casual. The Stoics, ancient and modern, were proud of concealing their tears. He never concealed His tears; He showed them plainly on His open face at any daily sight, such as the far sight of His native city. Yet He concealed something. Solemn supermen and imperial diplomatists are proud of restraining their anger. He never restrained His anger. He flung furniture down the front steps of the Temple, and asked men how they expected to escape the damnation of Hell. Yet He restrained something. I say it with reverence; there was in that shattering personality a thread that must be called shyness. There was something that He hid from all men when He went up a mountain to pray. There was something that He covered constantly by abrupt silence or impetuous isolation. There was some one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth; and I have sometimes fancied that it was His mirth.</i>
</p></blockquote>
<p>You know what would need in here?  A good orthodox Jew to inject this staid Puritanical panel of judgment with some rabbinical humor.  They have outclassed us younger brothers in this regard for centuries.</p>
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		<title>By: jocon307</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/08/04/in-defense-of-a-nascar-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-46530</link>
		<dc:creator>jocon307</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 05:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=32697#comment-46530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have to say that despite the irreverence and general tawdriness of Talladega Nights, I was really struck by the part where our hero notes that even though baby Jesus was just a baby, yet he was omnipotent.

This is the kind of throwaway line that has great meaning and it has stuck with me ever since.

Are not these things be part of the mysterious ways?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say that despite the irreverence and general tawdriness of Talladega Nights, I was really struck by the part where our hero notes that even though baby Jesus was just a baby, yet he was omnipotent.</p>
<p>This is the kind of throwaway line that has great meaning and it has stuck with me ever since.</p>
<p>Are not these things be part of the mysterious ways?</p>
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		<title>By: Raymond Takashi Swenson</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/08/04/in-defense-of-a-nascar-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-46515</link>
		<dc:creator>Raymond Takashi Swenson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 00:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=32697#comment-46515</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It strikes me that the gentleman may pray in this manner a lot, but if so, is he regarding God as the Creator and Judge of mankind, who will be deciding the fate of anyone who might die during that contest?  Or is he treating God as a waiter who is taking orders from him on behalf of the racers?  I would think that the guys who get out on the track are thinking pretty soberly about how to stay alive as well as how to win, and dedicating their performance to God, promising to drive in a way that will honor Him and His gifts to mankind--including our technology--may not add to the hilarity of the occasion, but might actually put some of the participants in closer touch with Him.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It strikes me that the gentleman may pray in this manner a lot, but if so, is he regarding God as the Creator and Judge of mankind, who will be deciding the fate of anyone who might die during that contest?  Or is he treating God as a waiter who is taking orders from him on behalf of the racers?  I would think that the guys who get out on the track are thinking pretty soberly about how to stay alive as well as how to win, and dedicating their performance to God, promising to drive in a way that will honor Him and His gifts to mankind&#8211;including our technology&#8211;may not add to the hilarity of the occasion, but might actually put some of the participants in closer touch with Him.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/08/04/in-defense-of-a-nascar-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-46514</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Aug 2011 00:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=32697#comment-46514</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m with Joe - the rednecks I grew up with would have seen this prayer as irreverent.

And thanking God for his &quot;smoking hot wife&quot; isn&#039;t a way of honoring his wife - it&#039;s more in the category of lewd bragging in a high school locker room. It&#039;s about him, not her.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Joe &#8211; the rednecks I grew up with would have seen this prayer as irreverent.</p>
<p>And thanking God for his &#8220;smoking hot wife&#8221; isn&#8217;t a way of honoring his wife &#8211; it&#8217;s more in the category of lewd bragging in a high school locker room. It&#8217;s about him, not her.</p>
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		<title>By: JDD</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/08/04/in-defense-of-a-nascar-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-46502</link>
		<dc:creator>JDD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Aug 2011 21:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=32697#comment-46502</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Albert,


&quot;It’s interesting that there are no humorous public prayers in Scripture.&quot;


I&#039;ll have to think that one over.  There are almost certainly examples of ironic humor in Scripture - but perhaps not in a specific formal prayer that I can recall.


But I myself know that some of my exchanges with God - my &#039;turning my attention to the Other&#039; - my prayer - *are* humorous indeed.  I wonder if that&#039;s part of the root of the distaste some feel:  that this was in some ways extraordinarily authentic and dare I say &#039;more acceptable&#039; as the words of a private prayer - but perhaps not one we wanted to hear publicly expressed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Albert,</p>
<p>&#8220;It’s interesting that there are no humorous public prayers in Scripture.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have to think that one over.  There are almost certainly examples of ironic humor in Scripture &#8211; but perhaps not in a specific formal prayer that I can recall.</p>
<p>But I myself know that some of my exchanges with God &#8211; my &#8216;turning my attention to the Other&#8217; &#8211; my prayer &#8211; *are* humorous indeed.  I wonder if that&#8217;s part of the root of the distaste some feel:  that this was in some ways extraordinarily authentic and dare I say &#8216;more acceptable&#8217; as the words of a private prayer &#8211; but perhaps not one we wanted to hear publicly expressed.</p>
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