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	<title>Comments on: White House Finally Condemns Planned Execution of Iranian Pastor</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/09/29/white-house-finally-condemns-planned-execution-of-iranian-pastor/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
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		<title>By: BrainStorms &#38; ThoughtBolts #7 - Confessions Of An Ex-Gay Superstar</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/09/29/white-house-finally-condemns-planned-execution-of-iranian-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-50933</link>
		<dc:creator>BrainStorms &#38; ThoughtBolts #7 - Confessions Of An Ex-Gay Superstar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2011 19:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=34777#comment-50933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Christian Pastor may be murdered for not recanting his faith. More here. The White House condemns the planned killing of this [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Christian Pastor may be murdered for not recanting his faith. More here. The White House condemns the planned killing of this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Artaban</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/09/29/white-house-finally-condemns-planned-execution-of-iranian-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-50897</link>
		<dc:creator>Artaban</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Oct 2011 13:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=34777#comment-50897</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I second the earlier comment that this thread has gotten bizarre.  I will attempt to clarify non-Catholics understanding concerning Catholic teaching on the death penalty, but given what I&#039;ve seen here, it might lead a few posters to accuse the Church (wrongfully) of hypocrisy.  

Currently, the USCCB is waging a campaign against the death penalty in the United States, from the position that modern technology/systems can detain a person and reasonably guarantee they won&#039;t continue to kill again (some 52.5 murders committed in the prison system per year, last time I looked).  The tradition of the Church, however, is that the state has a moral obligation to protect the innocent, and if the only way to stop a killer from continuing to kill is capital punishment, then such is permissible, though not preferable (preferably, other means could be employed that wouldn&#039;t end the life of a child of God).  

In other words, if a society can safely incarcerate for life, they should.  This distinction tends to lead to support for the death penalty in undeveloped countries, where they lack the ability to incarcerate safely and persistently, and opposition to it in &quot;advanced&quot; ones.  It may seem like hypocrisy, but it is not, as both protect a principle in favor of saving the most lives.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second the earlier comment that this thread has gotten bizarre.  I will attempt to clarify non-Catholics understanding concerning Catholic teaching on the death penalty, but given what I&#8217;ve seen here, it might lead a few posters to accuse the Church (wrongfully) of hypocrisy.  </p>
<p>Currently, the USCCB is waging a campaign against the death penalty in the United States, from the position that modern technology/systems can detain a person and reasonably guarantee they won&#8217;t continue to kill again (some 52.5 murders committed in the prison system per year, last time I looked).  The tradition of the Church, however, is that the state has a moral obligation to protect the innocent, and if the only way to stop a killer from continuing to kill is capital punishment, then such is permissible, though not preferable (preferably, other means could be employed that wouldn&#8217;t end the life of a child of God).  </p>
<p>In other words, if a society can safely incarcerate for life, they should.  This distinction tends to lead to support for the death penalty in undeveloped countries, where they lack the ability to incarcerate safely and persistently, and opposition to it in &#8220;advanced&#8221; ones.  It may seem like hypocrisy, but it is not, as both protect a principle in favor of saving the most lives.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul T.</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/09/29/white-house-finally-condemns-planned-execution-of-iranian-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-50875</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 16:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=34777#comment-50875</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sadly, this post is false in its premises - on May 11 the State Department spoke on this:
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/rm/2011/163123.htm

and on July 6 the SD spokesman said &quot;While Iran’s leaders hypocritically claim to promote tolerance, they continue to detain, imprison, harass, and abuse those who simply wish to worship the faith of their choosing.&quot;  Read the rest here:

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2011/07/167733.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, this post is false in its premises &#8211; on May 11 the State Department spoke on this:<br />
<a href="http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/rm/2011/163123.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/rm/2011/163123.htm</a></p>
<p>and on July 6 the SD spokesman said &#8220;While Iran’s leaders hypocritically claim to promote tolerance, they continue to detain, imprison, harass, and abuse those who simply wish to worship the faith of their choosing.&#8221;  Read the rest here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2011/07/167733.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2011/07/167733.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Joe Carter</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/09/29/white-house-finally-condemns-planned-execution-of-iranian-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-50863</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Carter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2011 22:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=34777#comment-50863</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;That said, let me single out a FT person who has been extremely consistent. Joe Carter has made the argument that the death penalty is everywhere morally wrong. So, I can say with certainty that at least one member of FT does care.&lt;/em&gt;

I hate to disagree with you when you are given me credit, but I&#039;m probably the only staffer at FT that &lt;em&gt;supports&lt;/em&gt; the death penalty, at least in the case of murder.

But I don&#039;t understand why you are turning this in a debate over capital punishment. Both stories are about executing people because of religious motivations, not because they have committed some capital crime. 

&lt;em&gt;FT’s expressed outrage on the death penalty differs by President. &lt;/em&gt;

Where has FT condemned President Obama for his support of the death penalty?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>That said, let me single out a FT person who has been extremely consistent. Joe Carter has made the argument that the death penalty is everywhere morally wrong. So, I can say with certainty that at least one member of FT does care.</em></p>
<p>I hate to disagree with you when you are given me credit, but I&#8217;m probably the only staffer at FT that <em>supports</em> the death penalty, at least in the case of murder.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t understand why you are turning this in a debate over capital punishment. Both stories are about executing people because of religious motivations, not because they have committed some capital crime. </p>
<p><em>FT’s expressed outrage on the death penalty differs by President. </em></p>
<p>Where has FT condemned President Obama for his support of the death penalty?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe McFaul</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/09/29/white-house-finally-condemns-planned-execution-of-iranian-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-50855</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe McFaul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2011 20:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=34777#comment-50855</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, FT has singled out one instance of of the imposition of the death penalty and used that instance to cudgel Obama, yet there have been numerous other instances of equally undeserving death penalty administrations under Republicans in which FT was silent. 

FT&#039;s expressed outrage on the death penalty differs by President. 

I find that hypocritical.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, FT has singled out one instance of of the imposition of the death penalty and used that instance to cudgel Obama, yet there have been numerous other instances of equally undeserving death penalty administrations under Republicans in which FT was silent. </p>
<p>FT&#8217;s expressed outrage on the death penalty differs by President. </p>
<p>I find that hypocritical.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/09/29/white-house-finally-condemns-planned-execution-of-iranian-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-50848</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2011 16:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=34777#comment-50848</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Joe McFaul:  Um, this started out as a debate about whether First Things was using the IRANIAN execution to unfairly bash Obama.  Somehow you&#039;ve morphed it into whether First Things should be opposed to all capital punishment.  How bizarre.

Or, what Wes said.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe McFaul:  Um, this started out as a debate about whether First Things was using the IRANIAN execution to unfairly bash Obama.  Somehow you&#8217;ve morphed it into whether First Things should be opposed to all capital punishment.  How bizarre.</p>
<p>Or, what Wes said.</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/09/29/white-house-finally-condemns-planned-execution-of-iranian-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-50847</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nickol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2011 16:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=34777#comment-50847</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;That so many clearly either can’t see the distinction or don’t care confirms that anti Christianity is an emotional commitment of some driving power. &lt;/i&gt;

Wesley J. Smith,

I certainly can see &lt;i&gt;a&lt;/i&gt; distinction between a murderer who confesses and asks for mercy and a man who may be martyred for his Christian faith. But according to my understanding of Catholic teaching on the death penalty, neither the confessed murderer who presents no danger to society nor the would-be martyr deserves to die. Killing either one is wrong. In a very real sense, those on death row who present no danger to society have just as much right not to be executed as Pastor Nadarkhani.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>That so many clearly either can’t see the distinction or don’t care confirms that anti Christianity is an emotional commitment of some driving power. </i></p>
<p>Wesley J. Smith,</p>
<p>I certainly can see <i>a</i> distinction between a murderer who confesses and asks for mercy and a man who may be martyred for his Christian faith. But according to my understanding of Catholic teaching on the death penalty, neither the confessed murderer who presents no danger to society nor the would-be martyr deserves to die. Killing either one is wrong. In a very real sense, those on death row who present no danger to society have just as much right not to be executed as Pastor Nadarkhani.</p>
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		<title>By: Wesley J. Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/09/29/white-house-finally-condemns-planned-execution-of-iranian-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-50841</link>
		<dc:creator>Wesley J. Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2011 14:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=34777#comment-50841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This whole discussion is bizarre. Tucker was a murderer who admitted her crime as she asked for mercy. The pastor is to be killed for his faith. That so many clearly either can&#039;t see the distinction or don&#039;t care confirms that anti Christianity is an emotional commitment of some driving power. That a certain ideogical sector gets more upset over Mumia does as well. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole discussion is bizarre. Tucker was a murderer who admitted her crime as she asked for mercy. The pastor is to be killed for his faith. That so many clearly either can&#8217;t see the distinction or don&#8217;t care confirms that anti Christianity is an emotional commitment of some driving power. That a certain ideogical sector gets more upset over Mumia does as well. </p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/09/29/white-house-finally-condemns-planned-execution-of-iranian-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-50839</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nickol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2011 13:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=34777#comment-50839</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I will make a retro-diction that it did not call upon either the President or the Governor of Texas to halt the execution.&lt;/i&gt;

Joe McFaul,

Your retro-diction is correct. A Google search reveals no appeals from or in &lt;i&gt;First Things&lt;/i&gt; to spare Karla Faye Tucker. &lt;a href=&quot;http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22Karla+Faye+Tucker%22+site%3Afirstthings.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Click this link.&lt;/a&gt; There is an article by James Nuechterlein that appeared shortly after her execution in which Nuechterlein, a defender of the death penalty, confesses his ambivalence about that particular execution. There are also shortly after that article two letters commenting on it. There are no references to Karla Faye Tucker in &lt;i&gt;First Things&lt;/i&gt; prior to her execution and also no others besides the Nuechterlein article and the two letters until years later, or at least none to be found with Google.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I will make a retro-diction that it did not call upon either the President or the Governor of Texas to halt the execution.</i></p>
<p>Joe McFaul,</p>
<p>Your retro-diction is correct. A Google search reveals no appeals from or in <i>First Things</i> to spare Karla Faye Tucker. <a href="http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22Karla+Faye+Tucker%22+site%3Afirstthings.com" rel="nofollow">Click this link.</a> There is an article by James Nuechterlein that appeared shortly after her execution in which Nuechterlein, a defender of the death penalty, confesses his ambivalence about that particular execution. There are also shortly after that article two letters commenting on it. There are no references to Karla Faye Tucker in <i>First Things</i> prior to her execution and also no others besides the Nuechterlein article and the two letters until years later, or at least none to be found with Google.</p>
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		<title>By: BrainStorms &#38; ThoughtBolts #7 - Confessions Of An Ex-Gay SuperstarConfessions Of An Ex-Gay Superstar</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/09/29/white-house-finally-condemns-planned-execution-of-iranian-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-50819</link>
		<dc:creator>BrainStorms &#38; ThoughtBolts #7 - Confessions Of An Ex-Gay SuperstarConfessions Of An Ex-Gay Superstar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Oct 2011 00:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=34777#comment-50819</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Christian Pastor may be murdered for not recanting his faith. More here. The White House condemns the planned killing of this [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Christian Pastor may be murdered for not recanting his faith. More here. The White House condemns the planned killing of this [...]</p>
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