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	<title>Comments on: Ramesh Ponnuru on the 47 percent</title>
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		<title>By: Jeremy G.</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/11/21/retire-the-myth-of-the-47-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-54446</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Nov 2011 04:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Artaban, you do know that not all of &quot;the 47%&quot; are welfare recipients who don&#039;t work, right?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Artaban, you do know that not all of &#8220;the 47%&#8221; are welfare recipients who don&#8217;t work, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Schmitz</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/11/21/retire-the-myth-of-the-47-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-54351</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Schmitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Artaban: Obviously there are some who will be overall beneficiaries of our welfare state (we could all be net losers if we took tax money and burned it, or sent it overseas). But I&#039;m confused. You say it&#039;s a mischaracterization of your position to say that you want to raise taxes on the poor, but what else are you proposing?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Artaban: Obviously there are some who will be overall beneficiaries of our welfare state (we could all be net losers if we took tax money and burned it, or sent it overseas). But I&#8217;m confused. You say it&#8217;s a mischaracterization of your position to say that you want to raise taxes on the poor, but what else are you proposing?</p>
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		<title>By: Artaban</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/11/21/retire-the-myth-of-the-47-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-54345</link>
		<dc:creator>Artaban</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 16:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=36806#comment-54345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think it&#039;s a mischaracterization of the conservative position to suggest that we want tax increases on the poor.  The issues of equity,  responsibility as a member of a society, and common goods are at stake. 

As a member of a country, we receive innumerable benefits imparted by that society--access to the highway transportation system, libraries, public utilities and emergency services, etc.   One should contribute to the system. 

Just because a poor person &quot;pays taxes&quot; doesn&#039;t mean they necessarily contribute in any substantive way to the system.  Many do, but I can state with certainty many do not.  Paying taxes with money you&#039;ve been given purely by the government is still the same as paying no taxes--you haven&#039;t PRODUCED anything. 

I work with the St. Vincent de Paul Society doing outreach to the poor and needy, during the course of which we meet with them in their homes and look at their finances prior to rendering assistance.  It is not uncommon for us to encounter someone without a job, collecting disability, food stamps, and getting ridiculously low rent through Section 8, who nonetheless has no desire to get a job or work to better their situation or that of their children. 

In this day and age, a physical limitation on mobility is not a bar to productive employment--many people work from their homes on computer or phone-based systems.  Some of these folks are even more mobile than a  coworker of mine who works at the school from/in his wheelchair. All of them that I&#039;ve met have more intellectual ability/education than the mentally handicapped I&#039;ve known who held down simple janitorial or customer service jobs (usher at a movie theater).  The difference is not one of ability versus inability, but wholely volitional--they have been completely institutionalized into government dependence and learned helplessness.  The obstacle to productivity is thus choice that has become a very real and insidious mental illness, not a legitimate handicap. 

Everyone who benefits should contribute SOMETHING, and it certainly cannot be said that 47% of America is incapable of that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s a mischaracterization of the conservative position to suggest that we want tax increases on the poor.  The issues of equity,  responsibility as a member of a society, and common goods are at stake. </p>
<p>As a member of a country, we receive innumerable benefits imparted by that society&#8211;access to the highway transportation system, libraries, public utilities and emergency services, etc.   One should contribute to the system. </p>
<p>Just because a poor person &#8220;pays taxes&#8221; doesn&#8217;t mean they necessarily contribute in any substantive way to the system.  Many do, but I can state with certainty many do not.  Paying taxes with money you&#8217;ve been given purely by the government is still the same as paying no taxes&#8211;you haven&#8217;t PRODUCED anything. </p>
<p>I work with the St. Vincent de Paul Society doing outreach to the poor and needy, during the course of which we meet with them in their homes and look at their finances prior to rendering assistance.  It is not uncommon for us to encounter someone without a job, collecting disability, food stamps, and getting ridiculously low rent through Section 8, who nonetheless has no desire to get a job or work to better their situation or that of their children. </p>
<p>In this day and age, a physical limitation on mobility is not a bar to productive employment&#8211;many people work from their homes on computer or phone-based systems.  Some of these folks are even more mobile than a  coworker of mine who works at the school from/in his wheelchair. All of them that I&#8217;ve met have more intellectual ability/education than the mentally handicapped I&#8217;ve known who held down simple janitorial or customer service jobs (usher at a movie theater).  The difference is not one of ability versus inability, but wholely volitional&#8211;they have been completely institutionalized into government dependence and learned helplessness.  The obstacle to productivity is thus choice that has become a very real and insidious mental illness, not a legitimate handicap. </p>
<p>Everyone who benefits should contribute SOMETHING, and it certainly cannot be said that 47% of America is incapable of that.</p>
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