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	<title>Comments on: Artocalypse No (Redux)</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/11/22/artocalypse-no-redux/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Matthew Milliner</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/11/22/artocalypse-no-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-54662</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Milliner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=36901#comment-54662</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We&#039;re Protestants, not Manichaeans!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re Protestants, not Manichaeans!</p>
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		<title>By: A Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/11/22/artocalypse-no-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-54643</link>
		<dc:creator>A Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=36901#comment-54643</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Physical presence matters – both in class and art.&quot;  

And in theology?  So you&#039;ve taught your students Christian Smith&#039;s Rule 18 (http://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-Committed-Ninety-Five-Difficult-ebook/dp/B00579Y51Y/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_8), an &quot;anomaly&quot; not easily accounted for within Protestant culture: we are not mere &quot;minds&quot; apart from our bodies.  Better be careful Prof. Milliner: you&#039;re gonna turn those Evangelicals Catholic!...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Physical presence matters – both in class and art.&#8221;  </p>
<p>And in theology?  So you&#8217;ve taught your students Christian Smith&#8217;s Rule 18 (<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-Committed-Ninety-Five-Difficult-ebook/dp/B00579Y51Y/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_8" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Evangelical-Committed-Ninety-Five-Difficult-ebook/dp/B00579Y51Y/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_8</a>), an &#8220;anomaly&#8221; not easily accounted for within Protestant culture: we are not mere &#8220;minds&#8221; apart from our bodies.  Better be careful Prof. Milliner: you&#8217;re gonna turn those Evangelicals Catholic!&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Mator</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/11/22/artocalypse-no-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-54377</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Mator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2011 03:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=36901#comment-54377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I see your point, and it&#039;s hard to argue against a call for people to be informed. But at the same time, this post seems to be an overstatement.

For starters, the opening sentence doesn&#039;t ring right with me, because it seems to equate &quot;secular&quot; with &quot;contemporary art.&quot; Even though most of what we would call &quot;contemporary art&quot; does come from a secularist mindset, the two are not the same thing. To put this in reverse perspective, consider this statemen: &quot;Secularists shouldn&#039;t complain about Christians misunderstanding them while they themselves continue to misunderstand the Contemporary Christian Music industry.&quot;

Secondly, how many people anywhere, Christian or otherwise, would actually be able to name five contemporary artists? The truth is that the artists who are creating the sort of art that normal people pay attention to are working in the basements of Disney, Pixar, Blizzard Entertainment, and whoever it is that produces those zany Super Bowl ads. 

I&#039;m sure that when Christian college professors talk about &quot;redeeming art,&quot; they are thinking about the elitist, insular sort of art that you will often find in galleries but rarely in anyone&#039;s homes. But when folks like me talk about redemption, we&#039;re thinking of what is popular. And if you asked us to name more than five major film makers, movie stars, hip hop musicians, or vampire novelists, you&#039;d get a very different answer.
 
The &quot;high art&quot; stuff is an easy target, because it really is absurd. But the true challenge is to engage with quality art and respond with something better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your point, and it&#8217;s hard to argue against a call for people to be informed. But at the same time, this post seems to be an overstatement.</p>
<p>For starters, the opening sentence doesn&#8217;t ring right with me, because it seems to equate &#8220;secular&#8221; with &#8220;contemporary art.&#8221; Even though most of what we would call &#8220;contemporary art&#8221; does come from a secularist mindset, the two are not the same thing. To put this in reverse perspective, consider this statemen: &#8220;Secularists shouldn&#8217;t complain about Christians misunderstanding them while they themselves continue to misunderstand the Contemporary Christian Music industry.&#8221;</p>
<p>Secondly, how many people anywhere, Christian or otherwise, would actually be able to name five contemporary artists? The truth is that the artists who are creating the sort of art that normal people pay attention to are working in the basements of Disney, Pixar, Blizzard Entertainment, and whoever it is that produces those zany Super Bowl ads. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that when Christian college professors talk about &#8220;redeeming art,&#8221; they are thinking about the elitist, insular sort of art that you will often find in galleries but rarely in anyone&#8217;s homes. But when folks like me talk about redemption, we&#8217;re thinking of what is popular. And if you asked us to name more than five major film makers, movie stars, hip hop musicians, or vampire novelists, you&#8217;d get a very different answer.</p>
<p>The &#8220;high art&#8221; stuff is an easy target, because it really is absurd. But the true challenge is to engage with quality art and respond with something better.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Winters</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/11/22/artocalypse-no-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-54359</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Winters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 19:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=36901#comment-54359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s fantastic.  Good work, students.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s fantastic.  Good work, students.</p>
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		<title>By: More than words and ideas &#171; The Art Department at Wheaton College</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/11/22/artocalypse-no-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-54355</link>
		<dc:creator>More than words and ideas &#171; The Art Department at Wheaton College</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 18:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=36901#comment-54355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] It&#8217;s not just our studio art students who know how to get a little creative, but also our art history students. Dr. Milliner, our professor of Art History recounts a comical, yet witty and poignant &#8216;joke&#8217; on him during a recent class. He has recounted and integrated this apt and appropriate jest into a recent post of his which you can read here. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It&#8217;s not just our studio art students who know how to get a little creative, but also our art history students. Dr. Milliner, our professor of Art History recounts a comical, yet witty and poignant &#8216;joke&#8217; on him during a recent class. He has recounted and integrated this apt and appropriate jest into a recent post of his which you can read here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: On Cultural Criticism &#8211; Justin Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/11/22/artocalypse-no-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-54353</link>
		<dc:creator>On Cultural Criticism &#8211; Justin Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=36901#comment-54353</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] he returns to the same theme, applying it to contemporary art: But even the most basic effort at understanding [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] he returns to the same theme, applying it to contemporary art: But even the most basic effort at understanding [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ethan C.</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/11/22/artocalypse-no-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-54350</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethan C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=36901#comment-54350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Awesome! Those are some clever students!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome! Those are some clever students!</p>
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