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	<title>Comments on: The &#8216;So What?&#8217; Set</title>
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		<title>By: Michael PS</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/12/27/the-so-what-set/comment-page-1/#comment-56670</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2011 09:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[David Nickol

I think that people who seek the  ultimate reality have more in common than you allow.

I am  sure that Plotinus, with his his strange and  stammering hints about the Yonder, and his final cry, &quot;He who knows this will know what I mean&quot; and Tauler with  his &quot;Abyss which is unknown and has no name . . . more beloved than all that we can know&quot; are referring to the same experience

Nor are such examples confined to the learned; I am sure the illiterate St Angela of Foligno would have understood Plotinus perfectly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Nickol</p>
<p>I think that people who seek the  ultimate reality have more in common than you allow.</p>
<p>I am  sure that Plotinus, with his his strange and  stammering hints about the Yonder, and his final cry, &#8220;He who knows this will know what I mean&#8221; and Tauler with  his &#8220;Abyss which is unknown and has no name . . . more beloved than all that we can know&#8221; are referring to the same experience</p>
<p>Nor are such examples confined to the learned; I am sure the illiterate St Angela of Foligno would have understood Plotinus perfectly.</p>
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		<title>By: harry</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/12/27/the-so-what-set/comment-page-1/#comment-56620</link>
		<dc:creator>harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2011 12:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=38100#comment-56620</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, Boonton,
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;
Are the people on the receiving end of the question hearing the language in the same way as those issuing the questions?
&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Right. That is indeed a problem with surveys. So is the fact that those who do the survey, or those who requested it, often want to present the results as though they reveal something significant when it is quite possible they really don&#039;t, or they seem to only because the questions begged for the desired answer. For example, surveys inquiring about a woman&#039;s right to choose will yield far different results about America&#039;s views on abortion than one that asks the same survey participants about an unborn child&#039;s right to life.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Boonton,</p>
<blockquote><p><i><br />
Are the people on the receiving end of the question hearing the language in the same way as those issuing the questions?<br />
</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Right. That is indeed a problem with surveys. So is the fact that those who do the survey, or those who requested it, often want to present the results as though they reveal something significant when it is quite possible they really don&#8217;t, or they seem to only because the questions begged for the desired answer. For example, surveys inquiring about a woman&#8217;s right to choose will yield far different results about America&#8217;s views on abortion than one that asks the same survey participants about an unborn child&#8217;s right to life.</p>
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		<title>By: Boonton</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/12/27/the-so-what-set/comment-page-1/#comment-56606</link>
		<dc:creator>Boonton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2011 23:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=38100#comment-56606</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[harry,

We can also stand some of the answers on their head.  Do 44% spend no time seeking &#039;eternal wisdom&#039; do they neglect to spend time on it because they don&#039;t think it exists or because they think they already have it?  Do 19% say its &#039;useless to search&#039; because they think such wisdom doesn&#039;t exist or are they thinking in a more zen-like way that trying to search for it is a surefire way to loose it?  

Now I&#039;m not saying all the people giving what are seen as the &#039;wrong&#039; answers here really think that way, only it serves to illustrate a danger with surveys like this.  Are the people on the receiving end of the question hearing the language in the same way as those issuing the questions?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>harry,</p>
<p>We can also stand some of the answers on their head.  Do 44% spend no time seeking &#8216;eternal wisdom&#8217; do they neglect to spend time on it because they don&#8217;t think it exists or because they think they already have it?  Do 19% say its &#8216;useless to search&#8217; because they think such wisdom doesn&#8217;t exist or are they thinking in a more zen-like way that trying to search for it is a surefire way to loose it?  </p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m not saying all the people giving what are seen as the &#8216;wrong&#8217; answers here really think that way, only it serves to illustrate a danger with surveys like this.  Are the people on the receiving end of the question hearing the language in the same way as those issuing the questions?</p>
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		<title>By: Felapton</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/12/27/the-so-what-set/comment-page-1/#comment-56596</link>
		<dc:creator>Felapton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2011 18:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=38100#comment-56596</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with harry that these numbers are surprisingly good. Probably as good as they would have been at most times and in most places historically. After all, if a majority of the population is sincerely trying to get into Heaven, what need would there have been to make attendance at Sunday worship obligatory?

The formulation &quot;church, synagogue or mosque of your choice&quot; also seems surprisingly coherent to me; all of these are places where the existence, goodness and faithfulness of the one true God is preached and professed. (Maybe the original intention was simply to be all-inclusive, and now the announcement would add some extras.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with harry that these numbers are surprisingly good. Probably as good as they would have been at most times and in most places historically. After all, if a majority of the population is sincerely trying to get into Heaven, what need would there have been to make attendance at Sunday worship obligatory?</p>
<p>The formulation &#8220;church, synagogue or mosque of your choice&#8221; also seems surprisingly coherent to me; all of these are places where the existence, goodness and faithfulness of the one true God is preached and professed. (Maybe the original intention was simply to be all-inclusive, and now the announcement would add some extras.)</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/12/27/the-so-what-set/comment-page-1/#comment-56589</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nickol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2011 17:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=38100#comment-56589</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is it better to think about ultimate questions and come up with the wrong answers (or no answers) than it is to not think about them at all? 

As often, I am reminded of the public-service announcements that tell you to attend the church, synagogue, or mosque of your choice. Is just having &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; kind of religiosity necessarily better than having none? 

I remember a story I heard once about an rabbi and an atheist who would get together every day, year after year, and argue about the existence of God. Finally one day the rabbi&#039;s wife, exasperated, intruded and said, &quot;What&#039;s the point? You just ague and argue and argue! Neither one of you is going to convince the other! This is pointless!&quot; They both instantly turned on her and told her she was wrong, because while they disagreed about the &lt;i&gt;answer,&lt;/i&gt; they both totally agreed on the importance of the question. 

I like the story, but it does not seem to me there is any real sense of solidarity among those who are interested in ultimate questions. They are more likely to divide up into groups based on the answers they &lt;i&gt;think&lt;/i&gt; they have, and quarrel with others who are equally convinced the answers &lt;i&gt;they&lt;/i&gt; think they have are the true answers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it better to think about ultimate questions and come up with the wrong answers (or no answers) than it is to not think about them at all? </p>
<p>As often, I am reminded of the public-service announcements that tell you to attend the church, synagogue, or mosque of your choice. Is just having <i>some</i> kind of religiosity necessarily better than having none? </p>
<p>I remember a story I heard once about an rabbi and an atheist who would get together every day, year after year, and argue about the existence of God. Finally one day the rabbi&#8217;s wife, exasperated, intruded and said, &#8220;What&#8217;s the point? You just ague and argue and argue! Neither one of you is going to convince the other! This is pointless!&#8221; They both instantly turned on her and told her she was wrong, because while they disagreed about the <i>answer,</i> they both totally agreed on the importance of the question. </p>
<p>I like the story, but it does not seem to me there is any real sense of solidarity among those who are interested in ultimate questions. They are more likely to divide up into groups based on the answers they <i>think</i> they have, and quarrel with others who are equally convinced the answers <i>they</i> think they have are the true answers.</p>
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		<title>By: harry</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2011/12/27/the-so-what-set/comment-page-1/#comment-56587</link>
		<dc:creator>harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2011 16:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=38100#comment-56587</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, but couldn&#039;t we also then conclude that:

•56% told the 2011 Baylor University Religion Survey they &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; spend time seeking &quot;eternal wisdom,&quot; and 81%  &lt;i&gt;do believe&lt;/i&gt; &quot;it&#039;s useful to search for meaning.&quot;

•54% told a 2011 survey by Nashville-based evangelical research agency, LifeWay Research, they &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; concerned with whether they will go to heaven.

•72% told LifeWay &quot;it &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; a major priority in my life to find my deeper purpose.&quot; And 82% believe that God &lt;i&gt;has&lt;/i&gt; a purpose or plan for everyone.

•93.7% of Americans turned up on Pew Forum&#039;s 2007 Religious Landscape Survey as &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; totally secular and feel either connected to God, or a higher power,  or some religious identity and are willing to say religion is important in their lives.

If most of those surveyed were young adults, who, as everybody knows, very often fall away from their religious upbringing only to return in a few years, things are actually looking up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but couldn&#8217;t we also then conclude that:</p>
<p>•56% told the 2011 Baylor University Religion Survey they <i>do</i> spend time seeking &#8220;eternal wisdom,&#8221; and 81%  <i>do believe</i> &#8220;it&#8217;s useful to search for meaning.&#8221;</p>
<p>•54% told a 2011 survey by Nashville-based evangelical research agency, LifeWay Research, they <i>are</i> concerned with whether they will go to heaven.</p>
<p>•72% told LifeWay &#8220;it <i>is</i> a major priority in my life to find my deeper purpose.&#8221; And 82% believe that God <i>has</i> a purpose or plan for everyone.</p>
<p>•93.7% of Americans turned up on Pew Forum&#8217;s 2007 Religious Landscape Survey as <i>not</i> totally secular and feel either connected to God, or a higher power,  or some religious identity and are willing to say religion is important in their lives.</p>
<p>If most of those surveyed were young adults, who, as everybody knows, very often fall away from their religious upbringing only to return in a few years, things are actually looking up.</p>
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