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	<title>Comments on: Romney and &#8220;Caring&#8221; about the &#8220;Very Poor&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/02/01/romney-and-caring-about-the-very-poor/</link>
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		<title>By: Noel</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/02/01/romney-and-caring-about-the-very-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-59211</link>
		<dc:creator>Noel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=39391#comment-59211</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How many of the poor work in jobs that are very low paid so you can have cheaper meals at your favourite restaurant; do your landscaping; populate your privitized prisons? extreme income inquality is not good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many of the poor work in jobs that are very low paid so you can have cheaper meals at your favourite restaurant; do your landscaping; populate your privitized prisons? extreme income inquality is not good.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/02/01/romney-and-caring-about-the-very-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-59166</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 12:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=39391#comment-59166</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;He could point out that the Great Recession has impacted middle-income Americans most severely because they had the most to lose; life under the poverty line in 2006 is not terribly different from under the poverty line in 2012. (How many “very poor” face foreclosure? How many “very poor” have lost their retirement savings? How many “very poor” have seen their small businesses fail?)&lt;/i&gt;

This is a very dubious argument.  The whole reason we dislike recessions so much is that they can push more people into poverty.  Additionally, the most vulnerable people in a recession are those with lower levels of education and less work experience.

For instance, in 2007, the unemployment rate for 25+ age adults with no high school diploma was 7.1%; by 2010, it had more than doubled to 14.9%.  Among 25+ adults with a bachelor&#039;s degree, though, unemployment was 2% in 2007 and 4.7% in 2010.

These data come from &lt;a href=&quot;http://bls.gov/cps/tables.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Table 7 of the CPS&lt;/a&gt;.  Given how much lending there was to low-income people during the bubble years, I also doubt the claim that middle class people have been hurt more than the lower-income people by foreclosures.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>He could point out that the Great Recession has impacted middle-income Americans most severely because they had the most to lose; life under the poverty line in 2006 is not terribly different from under the poverty line in 2012. (How many “very poor” face foreclosure? How many “very poor” have lost their retirement savings? How many “very poor” have seen their small businesses fail?)</i></p>
<p>This is a very dubious argument.  The whole reason we dislike recessions so much is that they can push more people into poverty.  Additionally, the most vulnerable people in a recession are those with lower levels of education and less work experience.</p>
<p>For instance, in 2007, the unemployment rate for 25+ age adults with no high school diploma was 7.1%; by 2010, it had more than doubled to 14.9%.  Among 25+ adults with a bachelor&#8217;s degree, though, unemployment was 2% in 2007 and 4.7% in 2010.</p>
<p>These data come from <a href="http://bls.gov/cps/tables.htm" rel="nofollow">Table 7 of the CPS</a>.  Given how much lending there was to low-income people during the bubble years, I also doubt the claim that middle class people have been hurt more than the lower-income people by foreclosures.</p>
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		<title>By: Bret Lythgoe</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/02/01/romney-and-caring-about-the-very-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-59155</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret Lythgoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Feb 2012 10:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=39391#comment-59155</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[pentamom: good to talk with you. You make a good point. I think that it&#039;s entirely legitimate to point out the flaws in other candidates, as long as it&#039;s honest. But it&#039;s just not honest for Romney&#039;s opponents to exploit his words here, where they believe essentially the same thing. What they&#039;re trying to do, is give an impression, concerning what he said, that he didn&#039;t mean to convey. This is what partly gives politics a bad name, is politicians exploiting their opponents in this fashion. It&#039;s a form of deception. It&#039;s not blatant lying, but it&#039;s deception nonetheless. This is not a criticism of so called &quot;negative campaigning.&#039;&#039; I believe that it&#039;s important to point out one&#039;s opponents flaws, as long as it&#039;s not deceptive. If it&#039;s technically true, but misleading, then that&#039;s a form of lying.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pentamom: good to talk with you. You make a good point. I think that it&#8217;s entirely legitimate to point out the flaws in other candidates, as long as it&#8217;s honest. But it&#8217;s just not honest for Romney&#8217;s opponents to exploit his words here, where they believe essentially the same thing. What they&#8217;re trying to do, is give an impression, concerning what he said, that he didn&#8217;t mean to convey. This is what partly gives politics a bad name, is politicians exploiting their opponents in this fashion. It&#8217;s a form of deception. It&#8217;s not blatant lying, but it&#8217;s deception nonetheless. This is not a criticism of so called &#8220;negative campaigning.&#8221; I believe that it&#8217;s important to point out one&#8217;s opponents flaws, as long as it&#8217;s not deceptive. If it&#8217;s technically true, but misleading, then that&#8217;s a form of lying.</p>
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		<title>By: pentamom</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/02/01/romney-and-caring-about-the-very-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-59108</link>
		<dc:creator>pentamom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 14:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=39391#comment-59108</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;It’s disingenuous, for Gingrich, or Obama, to exploit these words of Romney, because in substance, they agree.&quot;

Stipulated. Doesn&#039;t matter, though. We&#039;re talking about campaigning, which is rife with disingenuousness.

I try very hard not to be a cynical person but it&#039;s getting to the point where campaigning just breaks all the rules. If something can possibly be used as a weapon, it will be, disingenuous or not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’s disingenuous, for Gingrich, or Obama, to exploit these words of Romney, because in substance, they agree.&#8221;</p>
<p>Stipulated. Doesn&#8217;t matter, though. We&#8217;re talking about campaigning, which is rife with disingenuousness.</p>
<p>I try very hard not to be a cynical person but it&#8217;s getting to the point where campaigning just breaks all the rules. If something can possibly be used as a weapon, it will be, disingenuous or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael PS</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/02/01/romney-and-caring-about-the-very-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-59097</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 10:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=39391#comment-59097</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Art Deco

The Ems Dispatch and the Zimmermann Telegram spring to mind]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Art Deco</p>
<p>The Ems Dispatch and the Zimmermann Telegram spring to mind</p>
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		<title>By: Bret Lythgoe</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/02/01/romney-and-caring-about-the-very-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-59093</link>
		<dc:creator>Bret Lythgoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 08:27:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=39391#comment-59093</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If one examines the substance of what Romney said, and interprets it fairly, it not only is entirely consistent with what mainstream Republicans advocate, but also what mainstream Democrats advocate. You go where the votes are, which is the middle class. Romney could have worded it better, granted, but what he said, most people agree with: poor people have a safety net, and if anything is wrong with it, it should be fixed. That is, if it&#039;s not doing it&#039;s job of protecting the poor properly, it should be repaired. The rich, by virtue of being rich, don&#039;t need looking after. It&#039;s the middle class that needs help. 


It&#039;s disingenuous, for Gingrich, or Obama, to exploit these words of Romney, because in substance, they agree. Perhaps Pres. Obama, as a Democrat believes that we should have a bigger safety net, than the Republicans, but not on the need for one.


One could argue that Romney assumed that the american public is intelligent enough to decipher what he meant, and if so, they&#039;re not going to be fooled by the exploitation of his comments by his political opponents. In fact, the public may be insulted. Why? Because implicit in these attacks on Romney&#039;s &quot;poor&#039;&#039; comments, is the assumption that the public will not see them for what they are: political cheapshots of the crudest form.


It seems that we had a couple of Presidents, of the Bush variety, who made some errors in speech, but did just fine negotiating with foreign leaders.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If one examines the substance of what Romney said, and interprets it fairly, it not only is entirely consistent with what mainstream Republicans advocate, but also what mainstream Democrats advocate. You go where the votes are, which is the middle class. Romney could have worded it better, granted, but what he said, most people agree with: poor people have a safety net, and if anything is wrong with it, it should be fixed. That is, if it&#8217;s not doing it&#8217;s job of protecting the poor properly, it should be repaired. The rich, by virtue of being rich, don&#8217;t need looking after. It&#8217;s the middle class that needs help. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s disingenuous, for Gingrich, or Obama, to exploit these words of Romney, because in substance, they agree. Perhaps Pres. Obama, as a Democrat believes that we should have a bigger safety net, than the Republicans, but not on the need for one.</p>
<p>One could argue that Romney assumed that the american public is intelligent enough to decipher what he meant, and if so, they&#8217;re not going to be fooled by the exploitation of his comments by his political opponents. In fact, the public may be insulted. Why? Because implicit in these attacks on Romney&#8217;s &#8220;poor&#8221; comments, is the assumption that the public will not see them for what they are: political cheapshots of the crudest form.</p>
<p>It seems that we had a couple of Presidents, of the Bush variety, who made some errors in speech, but did just fine negotiating with foreign leaders.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Deco</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/02/01/romney-and-caring-about-the-very-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-59079</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Deco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2012 00:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=39391#comment-59079</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;So, okay, when the man is deep in negotiating with hostile nations, and he inadvertently insults the guy he meant to make peace with, it won’t matter if war breaks out because that wasn’t what he meant?&lt;/i&gt;

That happens on episodes of &lt;i&gt;Star Trek: the Next Generation&lt;/i&gt;, not elsewhere.  Countries do not begin a general mobilization for frivolous reasons.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>So, okay, when the man is deep in negotiating with hostile nations, and he inadvertently insults the guy he meant to make peace with, it won’t matter if war breaks out because that wasn’t what he meant?</i></p>
<p>That happens on episodes of <i>Star Trek: the Next Generation</i>, not elsewhere.  Countries do not begin a general mobilization for frivolous reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/02/01/romney-and-caring-about-the-very-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-59069</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 22:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=39391#comment-59069</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;“The remark is somewhat less shocking when not taken out of context.”&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Another way of looking at this is, instead of Romney being “dumb” for wording this awkwardly, maybe those who criticize him for it, are dumb for not interpreting it in the way that it was intended. &lt;/i&gt;

So, okay, when the man is deep in negotiating with hostile nations, and he inadvertently insults the guy he meant to make peace with, it won&#039;t matter if war breaks out because that &lt;i&gt;wasn&#039;t what he meant&lt;/i&gt;?

I&#039;m sorry, but all these defenses of Romney strike me as absurd when set against the things that were said about Perry and Gingrich when those two said tactless and/or stupid things. Pick one standard and apply it evenly, please.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“The remark is somewhat less shocking when not taken out of context.”</i></p>
<p><i>Another way of looking at this is, instead of Romney being “dumb” for wording this awkwardly, maybe those who criticize him for it, are dumb for not interpreting it in the way that it was intended. </i></p>
<p>So, okay, when the man is deep in negotiating with hostile nations, and he inadvertently insults the guy he meant to make peace with, it won&#8217;t matter if war breaks out because that <i>wasn&#8217;t what he meant</i>?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, but all these defenses of Romney strike me as absurd when set against the things that were said about Perry and Gingrich when those two said tactless and/or stupid things. Pick one standard and apply it evenly, please.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Perry</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/02/01/romney-and-caring-about-the-very-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-59055</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Perry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=39391#comment-59055</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;In 1992, it got turned into a quip about GHW Bush, whom Ann Richards said was “born with a silver FOOT in his mouth.” And that’s probably what you meant to reference, since it applies perfectly to Romney in this instance.&lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, I was born with a lead foot in my mouth. ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>In 1992, it got turned into a quip about GHW Bush, whom Ann Richards said was “born with a silver FOOT in his mouth.” And that’s probably what you meant to reference, since it applies perfectly to Romney in this instance.</i></p>
<p>Yeah, I was born with a lead foot in my mouth. ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: pentamom</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/02/01/romney-and-caring-about-the-very-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-59044</link>
		<dc:creator>pentamom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Feb 2012 16:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=39391#comment-59044</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Whether Romney meant it or not, this message is going to resonate positively with the taxpaying, working, middle class.&quot;

Only if the taxpaying, working, middle class ever hears it.

And they won&#039;t. Because the only way they will is if the Romney campaign repeats it. And they don&#039;t dare repeat it, because it will only remind people of the part the DNC will be playing every 30 minutes around the clock in their commercials, the part about &quot;I don&#039;t care about the very poor.&quot; You don&#039;t remind people of a real or apparent gaffe if your opponent is using it against you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Whether Romney meant it or not, this message is going to resonate positively with the taxpaying, working, middle class.&#8221;</p>
<p>Only if the taxpaying, working, middle class ever hears it.</p>
<p>And they won&#8217;t. Because the only way they will is if the Romney campaign repeats it. And they don&#8217;t dare repeat it, because it will only remind people of the part the DNC will be playing every 30 minutes around the clock in their commercials, the part about &#8220;I don&#8217;t care about the very poor.&#8221; You don&#8217;t remind people of a real or apparent gaffe if your opponent is using it against you.</p>
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