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	<title>Comments on: Faith Does Not Require Freedom</title>
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		<title>By: King</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/03/30/faith-does-not-require-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-62394</link>
		<dc:creator>King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Faith does not require political freedom to exist at a bare minimum, in hushed tones, on life support, in the catacombs.  But faith does require freedom to flourish.

Faith does indeed require the freedom of conscience at a purely definitional, &lt;i&gt;a priori&lt;/i&gt; level.  The very existence of faith is a component of our freedom of will:  God could compel us to submit to his glory, but he chose to rather give us the divine gift of volition that we may freely choose him.  For this holy dynamic to exist, freedom must obtain from the foundations of the universe.  This is why &quot;evidence&quot; for God seems invisible or improbable (though it is all around us), and this is why atheism exists, and this is why faith must exist until we are face-to-face with the Father.

We are not choiceless herds, we are not blissfully unaware animals.  We are the choosing animal, made in the image of God.  We are the flesh that has consciousness of itself.  That consciousness is the essential criterion of the human.  Free will is the &lt;i&gt;Imago Dei&lt;/i&gt; that comprises our souls.  God does not want the instinctive obedience of mindless fauna.  He wants our friendship, and friendship requires volition.

Or:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;i&gt;No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends....&lt;/i&gt;

John 15:15
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In Originally turning our back on his friendship, the Knowledge of Good and Evil entered into the world, and so did its antidotes: faith, hope, and love.  Free will, and therefore sin itself, is the residue of this fateful choice against God, which upset the intended dynamic until it could be repaired by the Second Adam.  We intuit what the good is in this broken world, but only by freely choosing the good can we contemplate the good in all its fullness.  &quot;I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate&quot; (Rom 7:15).

Being compelled to act in accordance with an inimical belief is not faith at all.  If freedom is outwardly circumscribed then all expressions of faith become internalized and therefore reduced to a gnostic rump of its most robust self.  &quot;[F]aith by itself, if it has no works, is dead&quot; (Jas 2:17).

Fortunately for us Christians, we have no choice but to proselytize.  We are commanded to spread the news of the Gospel.  That means we cannot truly be faithful when we are forced to shut up about it.  Our faith not only depends utterly on freedom, &lt;i&gt;our faith invented freedom&lt;/i&gt;.  The two are inextricable.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;i&gt;&quot;If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

John 8:31-32&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Faith does not require political freedom to exist at a bare minimum, in hushed tones, on life support, in the catacombs.  But faith does require freedom to flourish.</p>
<p>Faith does indeed require the freedom of conscience at a purely definitional, <i>a priori</i> level.  The very existence of faith is a component of our freedom of will:  God could compel us to submit to his glory, but he chose to rather give us the divine gift of volition that we may freely choose him.  For this holy dynamic to exist, freedom must obtain from the foundations of the universe.  This is why &#8220;evidence&#8221; for God seems invisible or improbable (though it is all around us), and this is why atheism exists, and this is why faith must exist until we are face-to-face with the Father.</p>
<p>We are not choiceless herds, we are not blissfully unaware animals.  We are the choosing animal, made in the image of God.  We are the flesh that has consciousness of itself.  That consciousness is the essential criterion of the human.  Free will is the <i>Imago Dei</i> that comprises our souls.  God does not want the instinctive obedience of mindless fauna.  He wants our friendship, and friendship requires volition.</p>
<p>Or:</p>
<blockquote><p>
<i>No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends&#8230;.</i></p>
<p>John 15:15
</p></blockquote>
<p>In Originally turning our back on his friendship, the Knowledge of Good and Evil entered into the world, and so did its antidotes: faith, hope, and love.  Free will, and therefore sin itself, is the residue of this fateful choice against God, which upset the intended dynamic until it could be repaired by the Second Adam.  We intuit what the good is in this broken world, but only by freely choosing the good can we contemplate the good in all its fullness.  &#8220;I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate&#8221; (Rom 7:15).</p>
<p>Being compelled to act in accordance with an inimical belief is not faith at all.  If freedom is outwardly circumscribed then all expressions of faith become internalized and therefore reduced to a gnostic rump of its most robust self.  &#8220;[F]aith by itself, if it has no works, is dead&#8221; (Jas 2:17).</p>
<p>Fortunately for us Christians, we have no choice but to proselytize.  We are commanded to spread the news of the Gospel.  That means we cannot truly be faithful when we are forced to shut up about it.  Our faith not only depends utterly on freedom, <i>our faith invented freedom</i>.  The two are inextricable.</p>
<blockquote><p>
<i>&#8220;If you continue in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>John 8:31-32</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Ray Ingles</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/03/30/faith-does-not-require-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-62375</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Ingles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 15:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=41513#comment-62375</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From Stephen Donaldson&#039;s &quot;Lord Foul&#039;s Bane&quot;: &quot;Suffering is good for the soul, but it is usually best to wait until the body has no choice in the matter.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Stephen Donaldson&#8217;s &#8220;Lord Foul&#8217;s Bane&#8221;: &#8220;Suffering is good for the soul, but it is usually best to wait until the body has no choice in the matter.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael PS</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/03/30/faith-does-not-require-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-62371</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 08:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=41513#comment-62371</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kate asks

“Since when is persecution a desirable state of being?”

“Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake” Matt 5:11  The Greek has μακάριοί makarioi = happy, blessed, to be envied.

cf  “For unto you it is given for Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him.” Phil 1:29 &amp; “If you be reproached for the name of Christ, you shall be blessed: for that which is of the honour, glory, and power of God, and that which is his Spirit, resteth upon you.” Pet 4:14]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kate asks</p>
<p>“Since when is persecution a desirable state of being?”</p>
<p>“Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake” Matt 5:11  The Greek has μακάριοί makarioi = happy, blessed, to be envied.</p>
<p>cf  “For unto you it is given for Christ, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him.” Phil 1:29 &amp; “If you be reproached for the name of Christ, you shall be blessed: for that which is of the honour, glory, and power of God, and that which is his Spirit, resteth upon you.” Pet 4:14</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/03/30/faith-does-not-require-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-62366</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=41513#comment-62366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Faith without freedom has limited expression.  The point of what St. Paul says to slaves is that you can be faithful to God while serving your master, although no man can effectively serve two masters.  

Martyrs may be faithful, but they are also dead, which is another kind of liberty.  We say that people of faith, such as those mentioned in the post, are persecuted.  Since when is persecution a desirable state of being?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Faith without freedom has limited expression.  The point of what St. Paul says to slaves is that you can be faithful to God while serving your master, although no man can effectively serve two masters.  </p>
<p>Martyrs may be faithful, but they are also dead, which is another kind of liberty.  We say that people of faith, such as those mentioned in the post, are persecuted.  Since when is persecution a desirable state of being?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/03/30/faith-does-not-require-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-62358</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 02:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=41513#comment-62358</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, the Russian Orthodox Church survived communism, but how many souls may have been lost because during those long years, the church was driven underground? Let&#039;s not think that our government should do evil--denying citizens freedom to practice their religion without legal penalty--so that good may come.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the Russian Orthodox Church survived communism, but how many souls may have been lost because during those long years, the church was driven underground? Let&#8217;s not think that our government should do evil&#8211;denying citizens freedom to practice their religion without legal penalty&#8211;so that good may come.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jack Perry</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/03/30/faith-does-not-require-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-62352</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Perry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 19:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=41513#comment-62352</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[+1 to david s. I half-wonder if Santorum didn&#039;t conflate two different meanings of &quot;freedom&quot;: freedom of the will, and political freedom.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>+1 to david s. I half-wonder if Santorum didn&#8217;t conflate two different meanings of &#8220;freedom&#8221;: freedom of the will, and political freedom.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Abelard Lindsey</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/03/30/faith-does-not-require-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-62349</link>
		<dc:creator>Abelard Lindsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 18:14:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=41513#comment-62349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Faith without freedom is meaningless. Only a mind free of coercion and duress is capable of comprehending reality and figuring out what is real and what is not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Faith without freedom is meaningless. Only a mind free of coercion and duress is capable of comprehending reality and figuring out what is real and what is not.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/03/30/faith-does-not-require-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-62348</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=41513#comment-62348</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Faith is tested in freedom.  Perhaps more subtly than in persecution, but it&#039;s tested like the wind tests a rocky cliff that it might, in due course, wear away to nothingness.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Faith is tested in freedom.  Perhaps more subtly than in persecution, but it&#8217;s tested like the wind tests a rocky cliff that it might, in due course, wear away to nothingness.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Botolph</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/03/30/faith-does-not-require-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-62345</link>
		<dc:creator>Botolph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=41513#comment-62345</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This a thought provoking article and I thank the author for it.

As he points out, &#039;faith&#039; can indeed exist and on a certain level &#039;thrive&#039; [martyrs etc] without it. However, especially at this time of the Passover-Pasch, we need to remember our roots.

When Moses was sent to Pharaoh the message was indeed, &quot;Let MY (Referring to the Lord God) People go&quot;, however, what is often overlooked is precisely the reason: &#039;that they may worship ME&quot;. The whole structure of the Book of Exodus reveals this &#039;thrust&#039; beginning with &#039;slavery&#039; leading to liberation-redemption then Covenant at Sinai (sealing the liberation and forming the nation of Israel) then leading to the whole establishment of worship [cult, descriptions of sacrifices, ordination, vestments etc of Levitical priests]  All so that the Holy One of Israel may abide in a holy, royal priestly people.

Jesus came both affirming and transforming this &#039;movement&#039;. He set forth for the first time in history the &#039;distinction&#039; between throne and altar, Caesar and God,-so that we might give to God what is God&#039;s.

He came in fulfillment of the Father&#039;s promise to Abraham &quot;to set us free from the hands of our enemies, free to worship Him without fear, holy and righteous in His sight all the days of our life&quot; [Luke 1  Benedictus]

He came not to be served but to serve and to give His Life as a ransom [liberation] for the many. Of course the fulness of that ransom is not some mere socio-political or economic program but the &#039;forgiveness of sins&#039;, freedom from &#039;our past&#039; and the ultimate liberation, the liberation from death, from &#039;being only in the past&#039;, in the resurrection.

Ancient Israel&#039;s intuition of the Jubilee became reality in the Kingdom: &quot;Proclaim liberty throughout the land&quot;. Leviticus 25.  The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, therefore He has anointed Me, to proclaim good news to the poor, liberty to captives, and an acceptable time (the Jubilee) of the Lord&quot; Isaiah 61 and Luke 4.

Where the Gospel is proclaimed, freedom will follow, however the deepest freedom of them all-not merely a freedom from but freedom for-

This is why Pope Benedict in speaking to the bishops in the Washington DC grouping spoke of the need to speak out for religious freedom and to reclaim this fundamental value of our Founding Fathers. Was it accidental that President Obama, the very next day set forth his HHS  plan?  God knows and history will eventually tell us.

I am not advocating here for Senator Santorum but he is definitely &#039;on to something here&#039;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This a thought provoking article and I thank the author for it.</p>
<p>As he points out, &#8216;faith&#8217; can indeed exist and on a certain level &#8216;thrive&#8217; [martyrs etc] without it. However, especially at this time of the Passover-Pasch, we need to remember our roots.</p>
<p>When Moses was sent to Pharaoh the message was indeed, &#8220;Let MY (Referring to the Lord God) People go&#8221;, however, what is often overlooked is precisely the reason: &#8216;that they may worship ME&#8221;. The whole structure of the Book of Exodus reveals this &#8216;thrust&#8217; beginning with &#8216;slavery&#8217; leading to liberation-redemption then Covenant at Sinai (sealing the liberation and forming the nation of Israel) then leading to the whole establishment of worship [cult, descriptions of sacrifices, ordination, vestments etc of Levitical priests]  All so that the Holy One of Israel may abide in a holy, royal priestly people.</p>
<p>Jesus came both affirming and transforming this &#8216;movement&#8217;. He set forth for the first time in history the &#8216;distinction&#8217; between throne and altar, Caesar and God,-so that we might give to God what is God&#8217;s.</p>
<p>He came in fulfillment of the Father&#8217;s promise to Abraham &#8220;to set us free from the hands of our enemies, free to worship Him without fear, holy and righteous in His sight all the days of our life&#8221; [Luke 1  Benedictus]</p>
<p>He came not to be served but to serve and to give His Life as a ransom [liberation] for the many. Of course the fulness of that ransom is not some mere socio-political or economic program but the &#8216;forgiveness of sins&#8217;, freedom from &#8216;our past&#8217; and the ultimate liberation, the liberation from death, from &#8216;being only in the past&#8217;, in the resurrection.</p>
<p>Ancient Israel&#8217;s intuition of the Jubilee became reality in the Kingdom: &#8220;Proclaim liberty throughout the land&#8221;. Leviticus 25.  The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, therefore He has anointed Me, to proclaim good news to the poor, liberty to captives, and an acceptable time (the Jubilee) of the Lord&#8221; Isaiah 61 and Luke 4.</p>
<p>Where the Gospel is proclaimed, freedom will follow, however the deepest freedom of them all-not merely a freedom from but freedom for-</p>
<p>This is why Pope Benedict in speaking to the bishops in the Washington DC grouping spoke of the need to speak out for religious freedom and to reclaim this fundamental value of our Founding Fathers. Was it accidental that President Obama, the very next day set forth his HHS  plan?  God knows and history will eventually tell us.</p>
<p>I am not advocating here for Senator Santorum but he is definitely &#8216;on to something here&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Ancius</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/03/30/faith-does-not-require-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-62339</link>
		<dc:creator>Ancius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2012 01:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=41513#comment-62339</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder if Santorum and Smith are misreading Guinness.  One might interpret &quot;requires&quot; in sense that God requires Jews to keep the Sabbath (or, if you like, the sense in which the Pope requires Santorum to do his bidding).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if Santorum and Smith are misreading Guinness.  One might interpret &#8220;requires&#8221; in sense that God requires Jews to keep the Sabbath (or, if you like, the sense in which the Pope requires Santorum to do his bidding).</p>
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