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	<title>Comments on: Secularization Theory and Social Peace</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/06/26/secularization-theory-and-social-peace/</link>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/06/26/secularization-theory-and-social-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-66208</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 20:20:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=44687#comment-66208</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[_So maybe without the thinking and philosophy of the greeks, the modern rational method of scientific rationality wouldn´t have been inveted at all._

That&#039;s quite possibly true, but it was the adaptation of classical rationalism by Christianity that led to modern science. Greek rationalism was perhaps a necessary, but definitely not a sufficient, condition.

_ For christians it took more than a millenia [sic] to rediscover it_

That, I&#039;m afraid, is utter nonsense. Do the names Augustine, Anselm, Lombard, Abelard, and Aquinas mean anything to you? Augustine developed his thought, modeled to a large degree on Plato, in the 5th century. Anselm wrote in the 11th, and Aquinas adapted Aristotle in the 13th. True, there&#039;s about a 500 year gap between Augustine and the greatest Christian theologians of the Middle Ages, but a) that had more to do with barabarian depradations (including the Vikings) and time to recover from the collapse of Rome than it did with Christianity, and b) it was not a period of inactivity for Christian philosophy. Saint Benedict, for example, wrote in the 6th century. Missionaries to what is now Germany were combining classical ideas with Christian belief in those years. The idea that the years from 500 to 1500 AD were an age of darkness and superstition superceded by an age of recovery of lost knowledge that led to further supercession by the &quot;Enlightenment&quot; is a self-serving myth created by certain 18th century figures like Voltaire, Diderot, Hume, and Kant. Read a little history.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>_So maybe without the thinking and philosophy of the greeks, the modern rational method of scientific rationality wouldn´t have been inveted at all._</p>
<p>That&#8217;s quite possibly true, but it was the adaptation of classical rationalism by Christianity that led to modern science. Greek rationalism was perhaps a necessary, but definitely not a sufficient, condition.</p>
<p>_ For christians it took more than a millenia [sic] to rediscover it_</p>
<p>That, I&#8217;m afraid, is utter nonsense. Do the names Augustine, Anselm, Lombard, Abelard, and Aquinas mean anything to you? Augustine developed his thought, modeled to a large degree on Plato, in the 5th century. Anselm wrote in the 11th, and Aquinas adapted Aristotle in the 13th. True, there&#8217;s about a 500 year gap between Augustine and the greatest Christian theologians of the Middle Ages, but a) that had more to do with barabarian depradations (including the Vikings) and time to recover from the collapse of Rome than it did with Christianity, and b) it was not a period of inactivity for Christian philosophy. Saint Benedict, for example, wrote in the 6th century. Missionaries to what is now Germany were combining classical ideas with Christian belief in those years. The idea that the years from 500 to 1500 AD were an age of darkness and superstition superceded by an age of recovery of lost knowledge that led to further supercession by the &#8220;Enlightenment&#8221; is a self-serving myth created by certain 18th century figures like Voltaire, Diderot, Hume, and Kant. Read a little history.</p>
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		<title>By: Sergio Méndez</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/06/26/secularization-theory-and-social-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-66204</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergio Méndez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 18:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=44687#comment-66204</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fred:

Well, that´s discusable. It was the greeks who first started to think in terms of natural causes, including in the field of medicine. So maybe without the thinking and philosophy of the greeks, the modern rational method of scientific rationality wouldn´t have been inveted at all. For christians it took more than a millenia to rediscover it, and couriously the moment that civilization started using it, it also started a path down into becoming a secularized one.  So no, rationality does not depend on God, as much as christian theologians have tried - in vain- to link both concepts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred:</p>
<p>Well, that´s discusable. It was the greeks who first started to think in terms of natural causes, including in the field of medicine. So maybe without the thinking and philosophy of the greeks, the modern rational method of scientific rationality wouldn´t have been inveted at all. For christians it took more than a millenia to rediscover it, and couriously the moment that civilization started using it, it also started a path down into becoming a secularized one.  So no, rationality does not depend on God, as much as christian theologians have tried &#8211; in vain- to link both concepts.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/06/26/secularization-theory-and-social-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-66098</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=44687#comment-66098</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well Sergio, that&#039;s what you get for thinking. The ancient Greeks and other pre-modern or non-modern cultures may have developed some knowledge of healing herbs and the human body which they could use to treat some conditions, but modern medical science as a systematic investigation of physical reality using the scientific method didn&#039;t, and couldn&#039;t, exist until the 17th century in Western Europe. And it was an outgrowth of the Christian view of the cosmos as rational due to the rationality of God and the dependability of natural laws due to the promises of God.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Sergio, that&#8217;s what you get for thinking. The ancient Greeks and other pre-modern or non-modern cultures may have developed some knowledge of healing herbs and the human body which they could use to treat some conditions, but modern medical science as a systematic investigation of physical reality using the scientific method didn&#8217;t, and couldn&#8217;t, exist until the 17th century in Western Europe. And it was an outgrowth of the Christian view of the cosmos as rational due to the rationality of God and the dependability of natural laws due to the promises of God.</p>
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		<title>By: Sergio Méndez</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/06/26/secularization-theory-and-social-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-66041</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergio Méndez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=44687#comment-66041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;For example, the doctor’s practice is part of, and a result of a montheistic approach to reality.&quot;

Silly me. I thought the roots of western medicine lied in ancient polytheistic Greece, with Hypocrathes as its father.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For example, the doctor’s practice is part of, and a result of a montheistic approach to reality.&#8221;</p>
<p>Silly me. I thought the roots of western medicine lied in ancient polytheistic Greece, with Hypocrathes as its father.</p>
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		<title>By: Pastor Spomer</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/06/26/secularization-theory-and-social-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-66036</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Spomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=44687#comment-66036</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would add a view that modernity (shorn of its excesses) is part of a Christian religious life.  For example, the doctor&#039;s practice is part of, and a result of a montheistic approach to reality.  Chrisendom birthed modern science, and physicians act as &quot;mask of God&quot; (using Luther&#039;s term).  Hence, the doctor is not an addition to prayer as an answer to it.  I am scientific because I am Christian.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would add a view that modernity (shorn of its excesses) is part of a Christian religious life.  For example, the doctor&#8217;s practice is part of, and a result of a montheistic approach to reality.  Chrisendom birthed modern science, and physicians act as &#8220;mask of God&#8221; (using Luther&#8217;s term).  Hence, the doctor is not an addition to prayer as an answer to it.  I am scientific because I am Christian.</p>
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		<title>By: Sergio Méndez</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/06/26/secularization-theory-and-social-peace/comment-page-1/#comment-66035</link>
		<dc:creator>Sergio Méndez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=44687#comment-66035</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Secular modernity is not medical knowledge or technical know-how, or even modern science. It is a diverse and often merely tacit set of claims about our ultimate ends as human beings unified by the consensus that our final end is not to know and worship God.&quot;

That seems discusable. I will change more by something like:

&quot;It is a diverse and often merely tacit set of claims about our ultimate ends as human beings unified by the consensus that our final end is not necesarely to know and worship God&quot;. 

Or in other words, it is a consensus that people ought to be free from any consensus regarding religious matters, since that is a private election, not a public imposed one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Secular modernity is not medical knowledge or technical know-how, or even modern science. It is a diverse and often merely tacit set of claims about our ultimate ends as human beings unified by the consensus that our final end is not to know and worship God.&#8221;</p>
<p>That seems discusable. I will change more by something like:</p>
<p>&#8220;It is a diverse and often merely tacit set of claims about our ultimate ends as human beings unified by the consensus that our final end is not necesarely to know and worship God&#8221;. </p>
<p>Or in other words, it is a consensus that people ought to be free from any consensus regarding religious matters, since that is a private election, not a public imposed one.</p>
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