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	<title>Comments on: Not Even a Decent Interval</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/07/21/not-even-a-decent-interval/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/07/21/not-even-a-decent-interval/comment-page-1/#comment-67548</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 20:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45391#comment-67548</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Blake,

“And liberals who deny that the media has been jumping on every murder* as an excuse to play politics are anti-history – which is to be on the losing side of science”

Before you put everything through your culture-war decoder ring, you might read the whole post.  AMF said, “This post a prime example of why, though I am a cultural conservative, I find conservative cultural criticism infuriating”]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blake,</p>
<p>“And liberals who deny that the media has been jumping on every murder* as an excuse to play politics are anti-history – which is to be on the losing side of science”</p>
<p>Before you put everything through your culture-war decoder ring, you might read the whole post.  AMF said, “This post a prime example of why, though I am a cultural conservative, I find conservative cultural criticism infuriating”</p>
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		<title>By: When everything is political &#171; Notes from a Small Place</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/07/21/not-even-a-decent-interval/comment-page-1/#comment-67532</link>
		<dc:creator>When everything is political &#171; Notes from a Small Place</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 17:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45391#comment-67532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Franck at First Things writes: Every observer of the American political scene could predict that in the hours after yesterday [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Franck at First Things writes: Every observer of the American political scene could predict that in the hours after yesterday [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Ingles</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/07/21/not-even-a-decent-interval/comment-page-1/#comment-67516</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Ingles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 13:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45391#comment-67516</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Patrick - &lt;blockquote&gt;So it wouldn’t be very responsible or logical to base law on events that occur infrequently.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The frequency isn&#039;t the only consideration though. At the very least, you have to factor in the severity, and how difficult something is to prevent.

I mean, looked at as a proportion of how much driving gets done in this country, traffic accidents are pretty rare. But they can be can be fatal, and some common-sense measures like mandatory training, seat-belt laws, and so forth go a long way toward mitigating the danger. We could prevent more accidents by banning cars, but that would have other downsides that we&#039;ve collectively decided outweigh the advantages of having cars.

I&#039;ve deliberately &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; followed this most recent shooting. I have no idea if there are simple common-sense measures that would have helped prevent it. But I&#039;d at least listen to proposals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick &#8211;<br />
<blockquote>So it wouldn’t be very responsible or logical to base law on events that occur infrequently.</p></blockquote>
<p>The frequency isn&#8217;t the only consideration though. At the very least, you have to factor in the severity, and how difficult something is to prevent.</p>
<p>I mean, looked at as a proportion of how much driving gets done in this country, traffic accidents are pretty rare. But they can be can be fatal, and some common-sense measures like mandatory training, seat-belt laws, and so forth go a long way toward mitigating the danger. We could prevent more accidents by banning cars, but that would have other downsides that we&#8217;ve collectively decided outweigh the advantages of having cars.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve deliberately <i>not</i> followed this most recent shooting. I have no idea if there are simple common-sense measures that would have helped prevent it. But I&#8217;d at least listen to proposals.</p>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/07/21/not-even-a-decent-interval/comment-page-1/#comment-67506</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45391#comment-67506</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt; Conservatives who deny this are just anti-science– which is to be on the losing side of history. &lt;/i&gt;

And liberals who deny that the media has been jumping on every murder* as an excuse to play politics are anti-history - which is to be on the losing side of science.


&lt;i&gt;*exception: shooters obviously motivated by pro-left-wing political motivations are exempt from all commentary.&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> Conservatives who deny this are just anti-science– which is to be on the losing side of history. </i></p>
<p>And liberals who deny that the media has been jumping on every murder* as an excuse to play politics are anti-history &#8211; which is to be on the losing side of science.</p>
<p><i>*exception: shooters obviously motivated by pro-left-wing political motivations are exempt from all commentary.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Melendez</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/07/21/not-even-a-decent-interval/comment-page-1/#comment-67502</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Melendez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 12:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45391#comment-67502</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For me, this time should be for the families and friends of those lost. They carry the grief. This is a time for mourning. We can tackle the political issues later, when it is clearer that no one is taking partisan political advantage of someone else&#039;s loss. First, we must recognize the humans involved.

As to sides, I&#039;ve read both calls for more gun control so the shooter couldn&#039;t shoot and calls for less so the victims could shoot back. There&#039;ll be time enough for that later.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, this time should be for the families and friends of those lost. They carry the grief. This is a time for mourning. We can tackle the political issues later, when it is clearer that no one is taking partisan political advantage of someone else&#8217;s loss. First, we must recognize the humans involved.</p>
<p>As to sides, I&#8217;ve read both calls for more gun control so the shooter couldn&#8217;t shoot and calls for less so the victims could shoot back. There&#8217;ll be time enough for that later.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael PS</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/07/21/not-even-a-decent-interval/comment-page-1/#comment-67492</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 08:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45391#comment-67492</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is axiomatic that acts of the understanding are specified by their object, so this may serve to remind us that good and bad choices are no more equivalent than apprehension and misapprehension, truth and error are equivalent species of an identical genus; rather, bad choices are paralogisms (παραλογισμός = Unreasonable or fallacious).

The good choice, “This – being such – is to be done,” is intelligible, because intelligent; the act of the bad will is a surd, ultimately unintelligible.  True enough, we can often trace its causes to instinctive or dispositional factors, but it remains logically incoherent.

I am not sure &quot;madness&quot; is a particularly helpful concept.  Perhaps, we can say that there are certain physical conditions which we know to go with irrational beliefs or attitudes with sufficient regularity for us to call them their causes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is axiomatic that acts of the understanding are specified by their object, so this may serve to remind us that good and bad choices are no more equivalent than apprehension and misapprehension, truth and error are equivalent species of an identical genus; rather, bad choices are paralogisms (παραλογισμός = Unreasonable or fallacious).</p>
<p>The good choice, “This – being such – is to be done,” is intelligible, because intelligent; the act of the bad will is a surd, ultimately unintelligible.  True enough, we can often trace its causes to instinctive or dispositional factors, but it remains logically incoherent.</p>
<p>I am not sure &#8220;madness&#8221; is a particularly helpful concept.  Perhaps, we can say that there are certain physical conditions which we know to go with irrational beliefs or attitudes with sufficient regularity for us to call them their causes.</p>
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		<title>By: TXW</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/07/21/not-even-a-decent-interval/comment-page-1/#comment-67491</link>
		<dc:creator>TXW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 07:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45391#comment-67491</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Emil:  &quot;assault weapon&quot; is a media term to scare.  They are refering to semiautomatic rifles, made to look like AK&#039;s or AR15&#039;s that are fully automatic. They are cheaply made rifles and not good for hunting much of anything except showing off.  For someone to use these weapons in a shooting suggests they have developed a persona, and if they knew about the efficacy of small arms, they would use more, for lack of a more delicate term, effective weapons.  Movies, video games, gangs, I don&#039;t know where the persona comes from. . . 

Hunters can use the weapons at gun shows, in accord with hunting laws.  Many hunters go to gun shows to buy used rifles and shotguns at cheaper prices. Some people at gun shows are creepy survivalists/white supremacists/libertarians. But gun shows are safe places, a mass shooter wouldn&#039;t last very long.

Figure out the percentage of guns bought at a gun show that are used in these crimes, and you would find that gun shows are not the problem.  I can&#039;t remember the details, but in some mass shootings, there have been people who have shot back, and halted the assault.  The element of planning in these crimes seems to shows that the perp chooses areas where the chance of someone else being armed is low (schools, theaters, shopping).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emil:  &#8220;assault weapon&#8221; is a media term to scare.  They are refering to semiautomatic rifles, made to look like AK&#8217;s or AR15&#8242;s that are fully automatic. They are cheaply made rifles and not good for hunting much of anything except showing off.  For someone to use these weapons in a shooting suggests they have developed a persona, and if they knew about the efficacy of small arms, they would use more, for lack of a more delicate term, effective weapons.  Movies, video games, gangs, I don&#8217;t know where the persona comes from. . . </p>
<p>Hunters can use the weapons at gun shows, in accord with hunting laws.  Many hunters go to gun shows to buy used rifles and shotguns at cheaper prices. Some people at gun shows are creepy survivalists/white supremacists/libertarians. But gun shows are safe places, a mass shooter wouldn&#8217;t last very long.</p>
<p>Figure out the percentage of guns bought at a gun show that are used in these crimes, and you would find that gun shows are not the problem.  I can&#8217;t remember the details, but in some mass shootings, there have been people who have shot back, and halted the assault.  The element of planning in these crimes seems to shows that the perp chooses areas where the chance of someone else being armed is low (schools, theaters, shopping).</p>
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		<title>By: Emil</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/07/21/not-even-a-decent-interval/comment-page-1/#comment-67479</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 00:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45391#comment-67479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is true that anyone with cash can go to a gun show and buy terrible weapons without a background check. Hunters cannot use such weapons. Assault weapons are for assaults. Doing away with them should not be a political, partisan issue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is true that anyone with cash can go to a gun show and buy terrible weapons without a background check. Hunters cannot use such weapons. Assault weapons are for assaults. Doing away with them should not be a political, partisan issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/07/21/not-even-a-decent-interval/comment-page-1/#comment-67478</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jul 2012 00:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45391#comment-67478</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think it&#039;s contradictory to the spirit of Christian charity to acknowledge that the killer here probably suffered from some kind of mental illness. The idea of a psychologically healthy mind and the ideal Christian mind aren&#039;t really all that different. It seems like they are just different ways of describing the same phenomenon, a mind disordered from its proper natural ends. So being mentally ill doesn&#039;t excuse someone, but it can lessen culpability to some extent. Just like someone who was raised to believe that dishonesty is necessary to survive is somewhat less responsible for dishonesty than someone who fully understands why it&#039;s wrong. But I think it can also be said that the mental illness itself is an evil thing.

As for the gun control angle, this seems like it would fall under &quot;hard cases make bad law.&quot; These sort of totally unprovoked mass killings are really pretty rare. They are certainly captivating in their horror, but they are not really a significant portion of deaths or even murders. So it wouldn&#039;t be very responsible or logical to base law on events that occur infrequently.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s contradictory to the spirit of Christian charity to acknowledge that the killer here probably suffered from some kind of mental illness. The idea of a psychologically healthy mind and the ideal Christian mind aren&#8217;t really all that different. It seems like they are just different ways of describing the same phenomenon, a mind disordered from its proper natural ends. So being mentally ill doesn&#8217;t excuse someone, but it can lessen culpability to some extent. Just like someone who was raised to believe that dishonesty is necessary to survive is somewhat less responsible for dishonesty than someone who fully understands why it&#8217;s wrong. But I think it can also be said that the mental illness itself is an evil thing.</p>
<p>As for the gun control angle, this seems like it would fall under &#8220;hard cases make bad law.&#8221; These sort of totally unprovoked mass killings are really pretty rare. They are certainly captivating in their horror, but they are not really a significant portion of deaths or even murders. So it wouldn&#8217;t be very responsible or logical to base law on events that occur infrequently.</p>
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		<title>By: ShmuelBen-Gad</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/07/21/not-even-a-decent-interval/comment-page-1/#comment-67471</link>
		<dc:creator>ShmuelBen-Gad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2012 21:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45391#comment-67471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is not at all clear to me that madness should be the default explanation rather than extreme ill will.

But it is clear to me that it is utopian to think it is at all possible, &quot;to stop things like this form happening again.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not at all clear to me that madness should be the default explanation rather than extreme ill will.</p>
<p>But it is clear to me that it is utopian to think it is at all possible, &#8220;to stop things like this form happening again.&#8221;</p>
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