<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Get Off My Lawn</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/02/get-off-my-lawn/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/02/get-off-my-lawn/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 03:31:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: LAC</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/02/get-off-my-lawn/comment-page-1/#comment-68508</link>
		<dc:creator>LAC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 04:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45666#comment-68508</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can believe that the “sustainability” programs being pushed are largely, unbeknownst to many adherents, serving an agenda of centralization of power-- and yes, much of this stuff does come down from the UN, just like global warming and a lot of other bright ideas. Also note the allied growth of global code organizations that literally want to code your entire life: safety, environmental, building ............

However, it does not follow that every aim of those programs is undesirable. In fact, most of the aims may be desirable, as long as we&#039;re not trying to force the changes through police or pseudo-police power.  

I don&#039;t want government forcing people to clump together, but OTOH many people don&#039;t realize that suburbia itself is a product of various government manipulations. The one libertarians are most likely to complain about is restrictive zoning. (Millions of American are only vaguely aware of the ways in which zoning has helped make their lives miserable.) Zoning that allows, say, only large-lot single-family housing, for instance, is nothing short of fascistic. Yet, suburbia is full of such communities. 

The least visible type of intervention is the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.earthrights.net/docs/kunstler.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;special-interest engineering of the real estate tax &lt;/a&gt; to reward land speculation and space-wasting, while penalizing quality development – a double barrel of dumb.  

Then, there was a documented conspiracy: the cartel of automobile, tire and oil companies that bought up and dismantled commuter rail lines across the country. 

There is also the effect of the interstate military highway system and other subsidies to car culture. Rail built the original pre-automobile suburbs such as the area I grew up in outside of Chicago. (The Chicago area had 11 commuter lines already by 1873.) These are the towns people praise for their charm., livability, and walkability – the ones with centers, with a “there” there. The fact of rail-centeredness is an obvious reason for this. But another likely reason was that 120 years ago, we relied more on real estate for revenue; and of that, taxed the site value -- which typically is higher in the center of town -- more than the improvements. Therefore, the tax code incentivized density at the core, building upward rather than outward; while at the same time, encouraging quality in construction.  

So, a simple tweak in the real-estate tax (or perhaps not so simple, if there are State laws blocking it, which is frequently the case) can begin to allow the market to supply smarter growth. 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.liveactiveculture.blogspot.com/2010/07/introducing-new-urbanist-shopping-mall.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Introducing the New Urbanist shopping mall!&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can believe that the “sustainability” programs being pushed are largely, unbeknownst to many adherents, serving an agenda of centralization of power&#8211; and yes, much of this stuff does come down from the UN, just like global warming and a lot of other bright ideas. Also note the allied growth of global code organizations that literally want to code your entire life: safety, environmental, building &#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>However, it does not follow that every aim of those programs is undesirable. In fact, most of the aims may be desirable, as long as we&#8217;re not trying to force the changes through police or pseudo-police power.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want government forcing people to clump together, but OTOH many people don&#8217;t realize that suburbia itself is a product of various government manipulations. The one libertarians are most likely to complain about is restrictive zoning. (Millions of American are only vaguely aware of the ways in which zoning has helped make their lives miserable.) Zoning that allows, say, only large-lot single-family housing, for instance, is nothing short of fascistic. Yet, suburbia is full of such communities. </p>
<p>The least visible type of intervention is the <a href="http://www.earthrights.net/docs/kunstler.html" rel="nofollow">special-interest engineering of the real estate tax </a> to reward land speculation and space-wasting, while penalizing quality development – a double barrel of dumb.  </p>
<p>Then, there was a documented conspiracy: the cartel of automobile, tire and oil companies that bought up and dismantled commuter rail lines across the country. </p>
<p>There is also the effect of the interstate military highway system and other subsidies to car culture. Rail built the original pre-automobile suburbs such as the area I grew up in outside of Chicago. (The Chicago area had 11 commuter lines already by 1873.) These are the towns people praise for their charm., livability, and walkability – the ones with centers, with a “there” there. The fact of rail-centeredness is an obvious reason for this. But another likely reason was that 120 years ago, we relied more on real estate for revenue; and of that, taxed the site value &#8212; which typically is higher in the center of town &#8212; more than the improvements. Therefore, the tax code incentivized density at the core, building upward rather than outward; while at the same time, encouraging quality in construction.  </p>
<p>So, a simple tweak in the real-estate tax (or perhaps not so simple, if there are State laws blocking it, which is frequently the case) can begin to allow the market to supply smarter growth. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.liveactiveculture.blogspot.com/2010/07/introducing-new-urbanist-shopping-mall.html" rel="nofollow">Introducing the New Urbanist shopping mall!</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alex Wolcott</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/02/get-off-my-lawn/comment-page-1/#comment-68425</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Wolcott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 15:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45666#comment-68425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, the conservative &quot;EVERYTHING IS A SOCIALIST PLOT AT WORLD DOMINATION!&quot; hysteric is extremely tiresome and does not advance the ends the authors of same would purport to want to advance.

Also, I think the likelihood that EITHER political party would actually try to effectively go to war with the suburban demographic that decides roughly 100% of national and state level elections is roughly zero. Despite what this NRO loon would intimate.

Nevertheless, my own guard starts to go up the minute I hear some ivory tower academic weenie pontificating from his perch on the Upper West Side of Manhattan as to why I need to live in some tenement in Brooklyn straight out of 1912 or whatnot.

I will never understand the odd fascination these people have for &quot;high-density&quot; &quot;sustainable&quot; living. Particularly in a country where we are in the top 5 worldwide in the ratio of arable land to population. Couldn&#039;t a better economic argument be made for greater utilization of the resources we have vis-a-vis our international competitors? If you have a lot of good, cheap land, jamming more and more people into scarce expensive land in urban cores would not seem to make a whole lot of sense to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the conservative &#8220;EVERYTHING IS A SOCIALIST PLOT AT WORLD DOMINATION!&#8221; hysteric is extremely tiresome and does not advance the ends the authors of same would purport to want to advance.</p>
<p>Also, I think the likelihood that EITHER political party would actually try to effectively go to war with the suburban demographic that decides roughly 100% of national and state level elections is roughly zero. Despite what this NRO loon would intimate.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, my own guard starts to go up the minute I hear some ivory tower academic weenie pontificating from his perch on the Upper West Side of Manhattan as to why I need to live in some tenement in Brooklyn straight out of 1912 or whatnot.</p>
<p>I will never understand the odd fascination these people have for &#8220;high-density&#8221; &#8220;sustainable&#8221; living. Particularly in a country where we are in the top 5 worldwide in the ratio of arable land to population. Couldn&#8217;t a better economic argument be made for greater utilization of the resources we have vis-a-vis our international competitors? If you have a lot of good, cheap land, jamming more and more people into scarce expensive land in urban cores would not seem to make a whole lot of sense to me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ottovbvs</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/02/get-off-my-lawn/comment-page-1/#comment-68414</link>
		<dc:creator>ottovbvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Aug 2012 12:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45666#comment-68414</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cantirino makes a good point. I often wonder if the conservative noise machine has ever heard of the law of diminishing returns. Every action large or small taken by the Obama admin or Democrats generally for that matter is denounced in terms saturated with paranoia such that it&#039;s essentially become wallpaper. Congress is the arena for endless meaningless maneuvering so that even those mildly interested in politics have ceased to pay attention. Was it really necessary for the house to have 30 odd votes to repeal Obamacare. States, including mine, are deluged with ads from Republican PACs and rather fewer from Democrats. No one pays any attention to them, except perhaps the most rabid bases of both parties. I&#039;m not familiar with this program but urban sprawl is a problem, even many middle of the road people who live in suburbia know this, a life long resident of the burbs I moved into town about 10 years ago and know which I prefer. And I wouldn&#039;t be surprised to find that Kurtz lives in metropolitan Washington or NYC and not 30 miles from the center of say Chicago or Baltimore.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cantirino makes a good point. I often wonder if the conservative noise machine has ever heard of the law of diminishing returns. Every action large or small taken by the Obama admin or Democrats generally for that matter is denounced in terms saturated with paranoia such that it&#8217;s essentially become wallpaper. Congress is the arena for endless meaningless maneuvering so that even those mildly interested in politics have ceased to pay attention. Was it really necessary for the house to have 30 odd votes to repeal Obamacare. States, including mine, are deluged with ads from Republican PACs and rather fewer from Democrats. No one pays any attention to them, except perhaps the most rabid bases of both parties. I&#8217;m not familiar with this program but urban sprawl is a problem, even many middle of the road people who live in suburbia know this, a life long resident of the burbs I moved into town about 10 years ago and know which I prefer. And I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised to find that Kurtz lives in metropolitan Washington or NYC and not 30 miles from the center of say Chicago or Baltimore.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/02/get-off-my-lawn/comment-page-1/#comment-68330</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 20:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45666#comment-68330</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;It’s not necessarily the author’s point that Matthew is contesting, it’s his tone and use of rhetoric to imply a secret agenda and socialist conspiracy behind every single action and policy of the administration, no matter how trivial or small. &lt;/i&gt;

So he fights fire with fire.

But I don&#039;t believe two wrongs make a right.

If he wants me to believe Kurtz&#039;s tone is overwrought, I might be very sympathetic to such an argument - but not if we&#039;re going to skip honest argument in favor of the OMG!!!!!ism and inflammatory rhetoric (SECRET CONSPIRACIES!!11!!!1!)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It’s not necessarily the author’s point that Matthew is contesting, it’s his tone and use of rhetoric to imply a secret agenda and socialist conspiracy behind every single action and policy of the administration, no matter how trivial or small. </i></p>
<p>So he fights fire with fire.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t believe two wrongs make a right.</p>
<p>If he wants me to believe Kurtz&#8217;s tone is overwrought, I might be very sympathetic to such an argument &#8211; but not if we&#8217;re going to skip honest argument in favor of the OMG!!!!!ism and inflammatory rhetoric (SECRET CONSPIRACIES!!11!!!1!)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter Hundt</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/02/get-off-my-lawn/comment-page-1/#comment-68314</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Hundt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 16:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45666#comment-68314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr. Cantirino is right to denounce the tendency of some to present policy disagreements in paranoid language.  He says the author wishes to incentivize the reader to vote against Obama.  Perhaps it&#039;s possible that this sort of presentation is helpful in selling books.  In either case it&#039;s silly and counterproductive.

He thens turns to the suburbs themselves, toward which he seems to hold some distaste.  Since he seems to think that most suburbs consist of three acre lots and are populated primarily by gluttons who are ignorant of their cultural inheritance, I wonder whether he has the expertise to subject these communities to the &quot;real criticism&quot; he believes they deserve.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Cantirino is right to denounce the tendency of some to present policy disagreements in paranoid language.  He says the author wishes to incentivize the reader to vote against Obama.  Perhaps it&#8217;s possible that this sort of presentation is helpful in selling books.  In either case it&#8217;s silly and counterproductive.</p>
<p>He thens turns to the suburbs themselves, toward which he seems to hold some distaste.  Since he seems to think that most suburbs consist of three acre lots and are populated primarily by gluttons who are ignorant of their cultural inheritance, I wonder whether he has the expertise to subject these communities to the &#8220;real criticism&#8221; he believes they deserve.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Polichinello</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/02/get-off-my-lawn/comment-page-1/#comment-68312</link>
		<dc:creator>Polichinello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 15:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45666#comment-68312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nobody&#039;s looking for &quot;three-acre lawns&quot; as much as they&#039;re looking for schools with little to no &quot;urban youth&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody&#8217;s looking for &#8220;three-acre lawns&#8221; as much as they&#8217;re looking for schools with little to no &#8220;urban youth&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Hinshaw</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/02/get-off-my-lawn/comment-page-1/#comment-68301</link>
		<dc:creator>John Hinshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 13:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45666#comment-68301</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mistaken title to this post.  As a lifelong suburbanite, I know the culture is more about getting off of YOUR lawn.  People moved out to the suburbs partly to be able to tell their neighbor what to do with his property (zoning laws).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mistaken title to this post.  As a lifelong suburbanite, I know the culture is more about getting off of YOUR lawn.  People moved out to the suburbs partly to be able to tell their neighbor what to do with his property (zoning laws).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Is Obama Planning to Stop Us from Rockin’ the Suburbs? &#124; The American Conservative</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/02/get-off-my-lawn/comment-page-1/#comment-68296</link>
		<dc:creator>Is Obama Planning to Stop Us from Rockin’ the Suburbs? &#124; The American Conservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 12:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45666#comment-68296</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Matthew Cantirino throws some much-deserved cold water on Stanley Kurtz’s latest hysterical ravings: Rather than fantasize about losing our natural right to three-acre lawns, those on the right ought to be embracing calls for more modest and—yes—traditional forms of living. We can certainly debate the most efficacious ways of going about things like combatting wasteful, atomizing land use; I even suspect the specific policy Kurtz critiques does tend toward bureaucratic know-it-all-ism rather than genuine community engagement (the proposal to scramble municipal tax revenues around a region could certainly be a localist sticking-point). But it’s rather baffling for people who profess to be concerned about culture to jumpily exempt large swaths of its constitutive elements (like, say, the physical arrangement and daily routine of peoples’ lives, jobs, and commutes) from any sort of real criticism. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Matthew Cantirino throws some much-deserved cold water on Stanley Kurtz’s latest hysterical ravings: Rather than fantasize about losing our natural right to three-acre lawns, those on the right ought to be embracing calls for more modest and—yes—traditional forms of living. We can certainly debate the most efficacious ways of going about things like combatting wasteful, atomizing land use; I even suspect the specific policy Kurtz critiques does tend toward bureaucratic know-it-all-ism rather than genuine community engagement (the proposal to scramble municipal tax revenues around a region could certainly be a localist sticking-point). But it’s rather baffling for people who profess to be concerned about culture to jumpily exempt large swaths of its constitutive elements (like, say, the physical arrangement and daily routine of peoples’ lives, jobs, and commutes) from any sort of real criticism. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mick Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/02/get-off-my-lawn/comment-page-1/#comment-68294</link>
		<dc:creator>Mick Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Aug 2012 11:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45666#comment-68294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do I sense a dopey romanization of city life with taxis, subways, crowded expensive apartments and corner stores?  I point out that New York City is not America—it is a small part of it with its own peculiarities.  The suburbs serve as a compromise for rural folk between distasteful city life and farms that can no longer provide enough income.  Suburbs exist because there is a felt need for them.  And very few people want to wake up one day and find someone else is building a car wash or pawn shop next door.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do I sense a dopey romanization of city life with taxis, subways, crowded expensive apartments and corner stores?  I point out that New York City is not America—it is a small part of it with its own peculiarities.  The suburbs serve as a compromise for rural folk between distasteful city life and farms that can no longer provide enough income.  Suburbs exist because there is a felt need for them.  And very few people want to wake up one day and find someone else is building a car wash or pawn shop next door.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jamie r</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/02/get-off-my-lawn/comment-page-1/#comment-68276</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Aug 2012 22:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45666#comment-68276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If suburbs weren&#039;t the result of almost a century of  federal and state judiciary and legislative policies in favor of suburbs, this argument might make sense. As it is, in this reality, arguments about the government infringing on property rights against suburbs deserve no sympathy. If the government wants to undo the harm it did by creating suburbs and sprawl in the first place, good for them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If suburbs weren&#8217;t the result of almost a century of  federal and state judiciary and legislative policies in favor of suburbs, this argument might make sense. As it is, in this reality, arguments about the government infringing on property rights against suburbs deserve no sympathy. If the government wants to undo the harm it did by creating suburbs and sprawl in the first place, good for them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
