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	<title>Comments on: T.S. Eliot and Anti-Semitism</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/09/t-s-eliot-and-anti-semitism/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/09/t-s-eliot-and-anti-semitism/comment-page-1/#comment-68842</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2012 22:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45921#comment-68842</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;“Nationality is the self-consciousness of a people and can only be secured by separation and exclusion of all that is alien”

The conservative French perspective is so distant from most American conservative views that I can only be grateful.&lt;/i&gt;

A culture is unified when all live by the same rules and expectations.

A culture is divided every time one group lives by one set of rules and/or expectations, while another lives by some other, different set.

This is true for both conservatives and liberals, probably in all cultures - ever. 

And it is a natural response for humans to exclude and shun that which is alien. That is why it matters so much how we define what is to be viewed as belonging vs. what is to be viewed as alien. We cannot get rid of the fact that we are &quot;made&quot; (whether via creation or evolution or both or neither) to reject Other. But what we can control is (a) how we define Other and (b) whether the form of our rejection is just or whether it is inhumane.

@Graham Combs:
&lt;i&gt;Progressives also want to end conflict. And as usual it is to be ended the old fashioned way. First by namecalling then by law.&lt;/i&gt;

This cracked me up. I don&#039;t know how I was expecting the sentence to end, but ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>“Nationality is the self-consciousness of a people and can only be secured by separation and exclusion of all that is alien”</p>
<p>The conservative French perspective is so distant from most American conservative views that I can only be grateful.</i></p>
<p>A culture is unified when all live by the same rules and expectations.</p>
<p>A culture is divided every time one group lives by one set of rules and/or expectations, while another lives by some other, different set.</p>
<p>This is true for both conservatives and liberals, probably in all cultures &#8211; ever. </p>
<p>And it is a natural response for humans to exclude and shun that which is alien. That is why it matters so much how we define what is to be viewed as belonging vs. what is to be viewed as alien. We cannot get rid of the fact that we are &#8220;made&#8221; (whether via creation or evolution or both or neither) to reject Other. But what we can control is (a) how we define Other and (b) whether the form of our rejection is just or whether it is inhumane.</p>
<p>@Graham Combs:<br />
<i>Progressives also want to end conflict. And as usual it is to be ended the old fashioned way. First by namecalling then by law.</i></p>
<p>This cracked me up. I don&#8217;t know how I was expecting the sentence to end, but &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Graham Combs</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/09/t-s-eliot-and-anti-semitism/comment-page-1/#comment-68759</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Combs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 03:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45921#comment-68759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alexander Hamilton once said that &quot;city air is free air.&quot;   As someone who lived in New York for nearly 18 years,  I no longer believe that is true.  And news out of New York, Boston, and Chicago these days hasn&#039;t changed that impression.  It does seem to me that it is those who label themselves as progressives who have steadily eroded our liberties using words like freedom and privacy when they intend neither.   See our northern neighbor and her human rights commissions aka tribunals which prosecute speech and thought.  It may well have been that the Church in the old days sought to end conflict with a very heavy hand.  But who brings down that morte main today?   The great armies may clash but in the end it is the individual Christian who must engage the individual who doesn&#039;t share that faith.  I take people one at a time not one group at a time.  But it has to be admitted that groups or cultures have characteristics and dispositions that mark and motivate them.   Progressives also want to end conflict.  And as usual it is to be ended the old fashioned way.  First by namecalling then by law.    Have none of the above commenters ever sat in a classroom or a workplace meeting during &quot;training&quot;  on &quot;diversity?&quot; Oh religion is mentioned but without the specificity of race, sex, or sexual orientation.  Good luck being an observant Catholic in those environments today.  Or closer to home been admonished during a sermon at mass that &quot;some are overreacting to the healthy care bill?&quot;   I&#039;m not going to allow abstract ideological concerns or hypotheticals distract me from personal experience -- an experience now of millions of Americans.   Sadly the Archbishop of New York seems to believe he still lives in that &quot;city on the hill&quot; praised by Hamilton.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alexander Hamilton once said that &#8220;city air is free air.&#8221;   As someone who lived in New York for nearly 18 years,  I no longer believe that is true.  And news out of New York, Boston, and Chicago these days hasn&#8217;t changed that impression.  It does seem to me that it is those who label themselves as progressives who have steadily eroded our liberties using words like freedom and privacy when they intend neither.   See our northern neighbor and her human rights commissions aka tribunals which prosecute speech and thought.  It may well have been that the Church in the old days sought to end conflict with a very heavy hand.  But who brings down that morte main today?   The great armies may clash but in the end it is the individual Christian who must engage the individual who doesn&#8217;t share that faith.  I take people one at a time not one group at a time.  But it has to be admitted that groups or cultures have characteristics and dispositions that mark and motivate them.   Progressives also want to end conflict.  And as usual it is to be ended the old fashioned way.  First by namecalling then by law.    Have none of the above commenters ever sat in a classroom or a workplace meeting during &#8220;training&#8221;  on &#8220;diversity?&#8221; Oh religion is mentioned but without the specificity of race, sex, or sexual orientation.  Good luck being an observant Catholic in those environments today.  Or closer to home been admonished during a sermon at mass that &#8220;some are overreacting to the healthy care bill?&#8221;   I&#8217;m not going to allow abstract ideological concerns or hypotheticals distract me from personal experience &#8212; an experience now of millions of Americans.   Sadly the Archbishop of New York seems to believe he still lives in that &#8220;city on the hill&#8221; praised by Hamilton.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/09/t-s-eliot-and-anti-semitism/comment-page-1/#comment-68749</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 21:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45921#comment-68749</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael PS,

“Nationality is the self-consciousness of a people and can only be secured by separation and exclusion of all that is alien”

The conservative French perspective is so distant from most American conservative views that I can only be grateful.  The American pluralist experiment is indeed exceptional and is closer to Christ’s vision.  Jesus and his followers rejected for good reason the Jewish nationalism that resulted in the destruction of the Temple.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael PS,</p>
<p>“Nationality is the self-consciousness of a people and can only be secured by separation and exclusion of all that is alien”</p>
<p>The conservative French perspective is so distant from most American conservative views that I can only be grateful.  The American pluralist experiment is indeed exceptional and is closer to Christ’s vision.  Jesus and his followers rejected for good reason the Jewish nationalism that resulted in the destruction of the Temple.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael PS</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/09/t-s-eliot-and-anti-semitism/comment-page-1/#comment-68702</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 12:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45921#comment-68702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mazzini, a liberal, if ever there was one, puts it very well. &quot;They struggled, they still struggle, for country and liberty; for a word inscribed upon a banner, proclaiming to the world that they also live, think, love and labour for the benefit of all.  They speak the same language, they bear about them the impress of consanguinity, they kneel beside the same tombs, they glory in the same tradition; and they demand to associate freely, without obstacles, without foreign domination, in order to elaborate and express their idea, to contribute their stone also to the great pyramid of history.  It is something moral which they are seeking; and this moral something is in fact, politically speaking, the most important question in the present state of things.  It is the organization of the European task.  In principle, nationality ought to be to humanity that which division of labour is in a workshop—the recognized symbol of association; the assertion of the individuality of a human group called by its geographical position, its traditions and its language, to fulfil a special function in the European work of civilization.&quot;  

Nationality is the self-consciousness of a people and can only be secured by separation and exclusion of all that is alien.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mazzini, a liberal, if ever there was one, puts it very well. &#8220;They struggled, they still struggle, for country and liberty; for a word inscribed upon a banner, proclaiming to the world that they also live, think, love and labour for the benefit of all.  They speak the same language, they bear about them the impress of consanguinity, they kneel beside the same tombs, they glory in the same tradition; and they demand to associate freely, without obstacles, without foreign domination, in order to elaborate and express their idea, to contribute their stone also to the great pyramid of history.  It is something moral which they are seeking; and this moral something is in fact, politically speaking, the most important question in the present state of things.  It is the organization of the European task.  In principle, nationality ought to be to humanity that which division of labour is in a workshop—the recognized symbol of association; the assertion of the individuality of a human group called by its geographical position, its traditions and its language, to fulfil a special function in the European work of civilization.&#8221;  </p>
<p>Nationality is the self-consciousness of a people and can only be secured by separation and exclusion of all that is alien.</p>
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		<title>By: Gian</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/09/t-s-eliot-and-anti-semitism/comment-page-1/#comment-68691</link>
		<dc:creator>Gian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 05:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45921#comment-68691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Civic pluralism is an oxymoron. The word &quot;civic&quot; indicates a City and City is defined by its Laws (written as well as unwritten customs and mores) and its vision of Good. 

Pluralism means competing visions of Good. It is essentially a City full of Strangers, a non-City in fact. 

That is the problem with the conservatives. They are floundering between two denials of the political nature of man that seeks to erase distinction between citizen and stranger.

This can be done either by making everyone  a citizen (Progressivism) or by making everyone  a stranger (libertarianism). These two tendencies are simultaneously acting and mutually reinforcing.  

The commandment Love Thy Neighbor itself indicates the political nature of man whereby man lives in nations with their particular Laws and vision of Good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Civic pluralism is an oxymoron. The word &#8220;civic&#8221; indicates a City and City is defined by its Laws (written as well as unwritten customs and mores) and its vision of Good. </p>
<p>Pluralism means competing visions of Good. It is essentially a City full of Strangers, a non-City in fact. </p>
<p>That is the problem with the conservatives. They are floundering between two denials of the political nature of man that seeks to erase distinction between citizen and stranger.</p>
<p>This can be done either by making everyone  a citizen (Progressivism) or by making everyone  a stranger (libertarianism). These two tendencies are simultaneously acting and mutually reinforcing.  </p>
<p>The commandment Love Thy Neighbor itself indicates the political nature of man whereby man lives in nations with their particular Laws and vision of Good.</p>
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		<title>By: Dusty</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/09/t-s-eliot-and-anti-semitism/comment-page-1/#comment-68611</link>
		<dc:creator>Dusty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 16:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45921#comment-68611</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Denis Donoghue debunked the Eliot-As-Anti-Semite myth years ago (see his book &quot;Words Alone http://www.amazon.com/Words-Alone-Poet-T-S-Eliot/dp/0300097190/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1344530140&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=words+alone+donoghue). Others have similarly done so. This slander is a relative of the one about Pius XII.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Denis Donoghue debunked the Eliot-As-Anti-Semite myth years ago (see his book &#8220;Words Alone <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Words-Alone-Poet-T-S-Eliot/dp/0300097190/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&#038;ie=UTF8&#038;qid=1344530140&#038;sr=1-1&#038;keywords=words+alone+donoghue" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Words-Alone-Poet-T-S-Eliot/dp/0300097190/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&#038;ie=UTF8&#038;qid=1344530140&#038;sr=1-1&#038;keywords=words+alone+donoghue</a>). Others have similarly done so. This slander is a relative of the one about Pius XII.</p>
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		<title>By: Sally Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/09/t-s-eliot-and-anti-semitism/comment-page-1/#comment-68606</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 15:46:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45921#comment-68606</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the answer lies in grounding human dignity in an anthropology that sees human beings as created in the image an likeness of God, and then takes seriously the command to love others as we have been loved.  

The difficulty is that in the midst of struggles over the survival of things we value and believe are essential, it&#039;s very difficult to keep these foundations in mind.  

It&#039;s good to be reminded that the deepest threat is not this or that political threat in a particular controversy, but even more essentially the danger of losing one&#039;s soul.  So yes, let&#039;s keep arguing for religious liberty and the good of marriage and all important social goods.  But not in a way that undermines the whole reason for defending these good things.  

The truth is that our salvation does not turn on any political or social arrangement, but rather on our fidelity to the Gospel, come what may.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the answer lies in grounding human dignity in an anthropology that sees human beings as created in the image an likeness of God, and then takes seriously the command to love others as we have been loved.  </p>
<p>The difficulty is that in the midst of struggles over the survival of things we value and believe are essential, it&#8217;s very difficult to keep these foundations in mind.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s good to be reminded that the deepest threat is not this or that political threat in a particular controversy, but even more essentially the danger of losing one&#8217;s soul.  So yes, let&#8217;s keep arguing for religious liberty and the good of marriage and all important social goods.  But not in a way that undermines the whole reason for defending these good things.  </p>
<p>The truth is that our salvation does not turn on any political or social arrangement, but rather on our fidelity to the Gospel, come what may.</p>
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		<title>By: Stones Cry Out - If they keep silent&#8230; &#187; Things Heard: e233v4</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/09/t-s-eliot-and-anti-semitism/comment-page-1/#comment-68589</link>
		<dc:creator>Stones Cry Out - If they keep silent&#8230; &#187; Things Heard: e233v4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 14:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45921#comment-68589</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] and civic pluralism &#8230; a tension to resolve? My solution is empowering the local community to be different, with the caveat that the door [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and civic pluralism &#8230; a tension to resolve? My solution is empowering the local community to be different, with the caveat that the door [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tiresias</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/09/t-s-eliot-and-anti-semitism/comment-page-1/#comment-68584</link>
		<dc:creator>Tiresias</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 13:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=45921#comment-68584</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anyone who is now encouraged to discover more about TS Eliot and his works is invited to visit the website of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.eliotsociety.org.uk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The TS Eliot Society UK&lt;/a&gt;, which contains a wealth of links and resources for enthusiasts and scholars.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who is now encouraged to discover more about TS Eliot and his works is invited to visit the website of <a href="http://www.eliotsociety.org.uk" rel="nofollow">The TS Eliot Society UK</a>, which contains a wealth of links and resources for enthusiasts and scholars.</p>
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