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	<title>Comments on: Al Smith Scandal?</title>
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		<title>By: Gail Finke</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/15/al-smith-scandal/comment-page-1/#comment-69408</link>
		<dc:creator>Gail Finke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 20:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I can&#039;t discern whether or not this was the right move. I think Cardinal Dolan is generally shrewd and a good diplomat, so I&#039;m hoping for the best. But I do think it&#039;s a scandal to invite a president who will soon, if he has his way, eviscerate  all religion to a Catholic event, even if it turns out to be a politically and diplomatically unavoidable scandal. His abortion stance aside, President Obama is attempting to redefine &quot;freedom of religion&quot; -- one of the freedoms basic to our nation. I just can&#039;t get my mind around why more people are not objecting to the determined and wilfull attempt to destroy, first the Catholic Church (because it is the biggest and most able to defend itself) and then everyone else. We&#039;re supposed to be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves -- I hope that in this case Cardinal Dolin as as much the first as he&#039;s being the second.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t discern whether or not this was the right move. I think Cardinal Dolan is generally shrewd and a good diplomat, so I&#8217;m hoping for the best. But I do think it&#8217;s a scandal to invite a president who will soon, if he has his way, eviscerate  all religion to a Catholic event, even if it turns out to be a politically and diplomatically unavoidable scandal. His abortion stance aside, President Obama is attempting to redefine &#8220;freedom of religion&#8221; &#8212; one of the freedoms basic to our nation. I just can&#8217;t get my mind around why more people are not objecting to the determined and wilfull attempt to destroy, first the Catholic Church (because it is the biggest and most able to defend itself) and then everyone else. We&#8217;re supposed to be as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves &#8212; I hope that in this case Cardinal Dolin as as much the first as he&#8217;s being the second.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Duehring</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/15/al-smith-scandal/comment-page-1/#comment-69392</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Duehring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 19:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46285#comment-69392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The conversation emphasizes the regrets due to Obama&#039;s invitation. Are we forgetting that Romney is also invited? Let&#039;s use the argument FOR why he is invited and maybe, just maybe, an dialogue will be created for them to debate the virtues of Romney&#039;s position.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The conversation emphasizes the regrets due to Obama&#8217;s invitation. Are we forgetting that Romney is also invited? Let&#8217;s use the argument FOR why he is invited and maybe, just maybe, an dialogue will be created for them to debate the virtues of Romney&#8217;s position.</p>
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		<title>By: Barth E. Bracy</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/15/al-smith-scandal/comment-page-1/#comment-69376</link>
		<dc:creator>Barth E. Bracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Aug 2012 17:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46285#comment-69376</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What would you think of a shepherd pleading for civility towards the wolf that is ravaging his flock? Scripture tells us what the Lord thinks (Cf. Ezekiel 34). What would you think of a father advocating civility towards a man engaged in harming his own children? The Cardinal&#039;s action stands in contrast ti his fundamental role of shepherd and father. He is also giving grave scandal to my own children who, when they see the pictures of Cardinal Dolan yukking it up with President Obama, will rightly wonder if Daddy is possibly overstating the seriousness of abortion. The Cardinal should reschedule the dinner until after the elections when nobody will care or report on the event. But of course we all know that none of the &quot;dignitaries&quot; would accept the invitation because the event is no longer useful to their political aspirations.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What would you think of a shepherd pleading for civility towards the wolf that is ravaging his flock? Scripture tells us what the Lord thinks (Cf. Ezekiel 34). What would you think of a father advocating civility towards a man engaged in harming his own children? The Cardinal&#8217;s action stands in contrast ti his fundamental role of shepherd and father. He is also giving grave scandal to my own children who, when they see the pictures of Cardinal Dolan yukking it up with President Obama, will rightly wonder if Daddy is possibly overstating the seriousness of abortion. The Cardinal should reschedule the dinner until after the elections when nobody will care or report on the event. But of course we all know that none of the &#8220;dignitaries&#8221; would accept the invitation because the event is no longer useful to their political aspirations.</p>
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		<title>By: A Certain Kind of Etiquette &#187; First Thoughts &#124; A First Things Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/15/al-smith-scandal/comment-page-1/#comment-69243</link>
		<dc:creator>A Certain Kind of Etiquette &#187; First Thoughts &#124; A First Things Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 16:57:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46285#comment-69243</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  A Certain Kind of Etiquette Thursday, August 16, 2012, 12:57 PM David Mills     Yesterday, in Al Smith Scandal?, Anna Williams wrote on the controversial invitation to President Obama to attend the annual Al [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  A Certain Kind of Etiquette Thursday, August 16, 2012, 12:57 PM David Mills     Yesterday, in Al Smith Scandal?, Anna Williams wrote on the controversial invitation to President Obama to attend the annual Al [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Botolph</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/15/al-smith-scandal/comment-page-1/#comment-69235</link>
		<dc:creator>Botolph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 15:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46285#comment-69235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I first heard of the invitation of President Obama by the Cardinal my first reaction was not to think that the Cardinal had &#039;lost it&#039; [It=either his mind or his will to fight for religious freedom in our country]

Nor did I jump to the conclusion that this was a scandal: although there are two thousand years of many and various scandals in the Church, the worst ever is what happened on the First Holy Thursday Night: Judas betrays Jesus for a paltry amount of money, Peter, the Rock denies Christ three times and the other apostles flee-we have withstood all of this-because Christ and the Spirit are with the Church!  Somehow I really think we will survive the Al Smith Dinner!

What I did do, however was to sit back and begin to ponder: what is the Cardinal really doing here [I know he sent an invitation--but what is REALLY going on here!]

The most basic answer I came up with is this:  Cardinal Dolan made a &lt;&gt; to invite the President. Whatever else, whatever other reasons, whatever shoulds or shouldn&#039;ts are involved, the Cardinal was faced with a moment in which he had to make a prudential decision-giving it his best shot-just like the rest of us. Needless to say, many &#039;feel&#039; that he made a mistake or even worse. It indeed could be a mistake [although I do not believe in the end it will show itself to have been a mistake]. 

The Cardinal, the Pope for that matter (just like every other human being) have to make decisions all the time-unless they are directly related to the content of doctrine on matters of faith and morals-the Cardinal or the Pope for that matter do not have the infallible guidance of the Spirit-and neither do the rest of us!

The Cardinal mentioned the Knights of Columbus. Two major things came out of that week long meeting, last week.  One was the commission the Pope gave the Knights (KOC)to protect Religious Freedom, the other however was to reintroduce civility into the public sphere. Without civility we do not have culture and civilization.

One final thought, there are many who claim (and I do not dispute them) that we are indeed in a culture war in America. We have gone through several of these in our history [the Revolution pitted the &#039;Patriots&quot; vs the Loyalists; the Civil War pitting states rights and slavery vs the Union and abolition of slavery. There were simply not that many Catholics in the thirteen colonies at the Revolution, but by the Civil War we were already the largest &#039;denomination&#039; in the country. There were Catholics on both sides of the Mason Dixon line (with all that that means) yet we remained one Church and did not allow that culture war to divide us.

There are forces at work today that are attempting to divide Catholics [conservative against liberal, those &#039;pro-life&#039; vs &#039;social justice&#039; Catholics]. The time has come to ask ourselves not simply where we stand on these issues, but are we working toward &#039;communion&#039; or &#039;separation and division&#039;?  

I believe Cardinal Dolan has answered this-for himself and has given us more than a hint of a direction to go in]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I first heard of the invitation of President Obama by the Cardinal my first reaction was not to think that the Cardinal had &#8216;lost it&#8217; [It=either his mind or his will to fight for religious freedom in our country]</p>
<p>Nor did I jump to the conclusion that this was a scandal: although there are two thousand years of many and various scandals in the Church, the worst ever is what happened on the First Holy Thursday Night: Judas betrays Jesus for a paltry amount of money, Peter, the Rock denies Christ three times and the other apostles flee-we have withstood all of this-because Christ and the Spirit are with the Church!  Somehow I really think we will survive the Al Smith Dinner!</p>
<p>What I did do, however was to sit back and begin to ponder: what is the Cardinal really doing here [I know he sent an invitation--but what is REALLY going on here!]</p>
<p>The most basic answer I came up with is this:  Cardinal Dolan made a &lt;&gt; to invite the President. Whatever else, whatever other reasons, whatever shoulds or shouldn&#8217;ts are involved, the Cardinal was faced with a moment in which he had to make a prudential decision-giving it his best shot-just like the rest of us. Needless to say, many &#8216;feel&#8217; that he made a mistake or even worse. It indeed could be a mistake [although I do not believe in the end it will show itself to have been a mistake]. </p>
<p>The Cardinal, the Pope for that matter (just like every other human being) have to make decisions all the time-unless they are directly related to the content of doctrine on matters of faith and morals-the Cardinal or the Pope for that matter do not have the infallible guidance of the Spirit-and neither do the rest of us!</p>
<p>The Cardinal mentioned the Knights of Columbus. Two major things came out of that week long meeting, last week.  One was the commission the Pope gave the Knights (KOC)to protect Religious Freedom, the other however was to reintroduce civility into the public sphere. Without civility we do not have culture and civilization.</p>
<p>One final thought, there are many who claim (and I do not dispute them) that we are indeed in a culture war in America. We have gone through several of these in our history [the Revolution pitted the 'Patriots" vs the Loyalists; the Civil War pitting states rights and slavery vs the Union and abolition of slavery. There were simply not that many Catholics in the thirteen colonies at the Revolution, but by the Civil War we were already the largest 'denomination' in the country. There were Catholics on both sides of the Mason Dixon line (with all that that means) yet we remained one Church and did not allow that culture war to divide us.</p>
<p>There are forces at work today that are attempting to divide Catholics [conservative against liberal, those 'pro-life' vs 'social justice' Catholics]. The time has come to ask ourselves not simply where we stand on these issues, but are we working toward &#8216;communion&#8217; or &#8216;separation and division&#8217;?  </p>
<p>I believe Cardinal Dolan has answered this-for himself and has given us more than a hint of a direction to go in</p>
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		<title>By: harry</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/15/al-smith-scandal/comment-page-1/#comment-69234</link>
		<dc:creator>harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 15:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46285#comment-69234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;I am amazed at how quickly the erstwhile lovers of all things Dolan turned on him as soon as this decision was announced.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Disagreeing with Dolan is not necessarily &quot;turning on him.&quot; I vehemently disagree with his decision to invite Obama to the Al Smith dinner. Yet overall Dolan gives me hope that the Church is finally going to deal with the fact that it is inherently idolatrous to render unto Caesar authority over innocent human life that belongs only to God.

Caesar&#039;s usurpation of God&#039;s authority is a genuine assault on the very heart of Christianity, an assault on its heart figuratively in terms of the nature of the sin of idolatry, and literally if we take Christ at His word when He says that whatever we do to the least of His brothers and sisters we do to Him. It is then &lt;i&gt;His&lt;/i&gt; beating heart that is stopped when the life of the child in the womb is taken.
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;I was a stranger and you welcomed me.
-- Matthew 25:35&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
 It was Him that was the helpless stranger the world refused to make welcome and disposed of at the abortion clinic.
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this shall all men know that you are my disciples ...
-- John 13:34-35&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&quot;As I have loved you.&quot;  And how did He love us? He loved us heroically and passionately unto a humiliating death on a cross when we were as yet unborn. The world will know we are His disciples when we love Him as He loved us, loving Him heroically and passionately in His least brothers and sisters who are as yet unborn.
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;While Obama is no friend to the Church, he is not Satan incarnate, and I think many faithful Catholics forget that.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
He is definitely not Satan incarnate. If it were true, as you say, that many Catholics are forgetting that, then that would be indicative of some very serious flaws in Obama&#039;s character. It is not a matter of Catholics thinking he is Satan incarnate. It is really a matter of many Catholics becoming aware of the moral bankruptcy of his positions on the social issues and the danger of his ideology, one that calls for the deification of the state.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>I am amazed at how quickly the erstwhile lovers of all things Dolan turned on him as soon as this decision was announced.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Disagreeing with Dolan is not necessarily &#8220;turning on him.&#8221; I vehemently disagree with his decision to invite Obama to the Al Smith dinner. Yet overall Dolan gives me hope that the Church is finally going to deal with the fact that it is inherently idolatrous to render unto Caesar authority over innocent human life that belongs only to God.</p>
<p>Caesar&#8217;s usurpation of God&#8217;s authority is a genuine assault on the very heart of Christianity, an assault on its heart figuratively in terms of the nature of the sin of idolatry, and literally if we take Christ at His word when He says that whatever we do to the least of His brothers and sisters we do to Him. It is then <i>His</i> beating heart that is stopped when the life of the child in the womb is taken.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>I was a stranger and you welcomed me.<br />
&#8211; Matthew 25:35</i></p></blockquote>
<p> It was Him that was the helpless stranger the world refused to make welcome and disposed of at the abortion clinic.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>A new commandment I give unto you: That you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this shall all men know that you are my disciples &#8230;<br />
&#8211; John 13:34-35</i></p></blockquote>
<p>&#8220;As I have loved you.&#8221;  And how did He love us? He loved us heroically and passionately unto a humiliating death on a cross when we were as yet unborn. The world will know we are His disciples when we love Him as He loved us, loving Him heroically and passionately in His least brothers and sisters who are as yet unborn.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>While Obama is no friend to the Church, he is not Satan incarnate, and I think many faithful Catholics forget that.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>He is definitely not Satan incarnate. If it were true, as you say, that many Catholics are forgetting that, then that would be indicative of some very serious flaws in Obama&#8217;s character. It is not a matter of Catholics thinking he is Satan incarnate. It is really a matter of many Catholics becoming aware of the moral bankruptcy of his positions on the social issues and the danger of his ideology, one that calls for the deification of the state.</p>
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		<title>By: Christina</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/15/al-smith-scandal/comment-page-1/#comment-69217</link>
		<dc:creator>Christina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 14:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46285#comment-69217</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am amazed at how quickly the erstwhile lovers of all things Dolan turned on him as soon as this decision was announced. While Obama is no friend to the Church, he is not Satan incarnate, and I think many faithful Catholics forget that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am amazed at how quickly the erstwhile lovers of all things Dolan turned on him as soon as this decision was announced. While Obama is no friend to the Church, he is not Satan incarnate, and I think many faithful Catholics forget that.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael PS</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/15/al-smith-scandal/comment-page-1/#comment-69190</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 08:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46285#comment-69190</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Harry

The approach of the French cardinals, endorsed by Pope Leo XIII was three-fold

(1) A distinction between the form of government (the Republic) and particular laws
(2) Respect for the laws of the country whenever they do not clash with conscientious obligations
(3) Respect for the representatives of authority

All three are perfectly compatible with each other.  The &quot;king&quot; whom St Peter enjoined Christians to &quot;honour&quot; was Nero.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harry</p>
<p>The approach of the French cardinals, endorsed by Pope Leo XIII was three-fold</p>
<p>(1) A distinction between the form of government (the Republic) and particular laws<br />
(2) Respect for the laws of the country whenever they do not clash with conscientious obligations<br />
(3) Respect for the representatives of authority</p>
<p>All three are perfectly compatible with each other.  The &#8220;king&#8221; whom St Peter enjoined Christians to &#8220;honour&#8221; was Nero.</p>
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		<title>By: Sir Louis</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/15/al-smith-scandal/comment-page-1/#comment-69167</link>
		<dc:creator>Sir Louis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 03:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46285#comment-69167</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr Obama&#039;s campaign immediately began touting the invitation as an &quot;honor.&quot; There&#039;s no way around it: Cardinal Dolan has given Mr Obama a place at his side, and Mr Obama will use it to advance his own agenda.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Obama&#8217;s campaign immediately began touting the invitation as an &#8220;honor.&#8221; There&#8217;s no way around it: Cardinal Dolan has given Mr Obama a place at his side, and Mr Obama will use it to advance his own agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: harry</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/15/al-smith-scandal/comment-page-1/#comment-69155</link>
		<dc:creator>harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2012 01:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46285#comment-69155</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello, George,
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;
I still support Dolan, as he has done a lot to defend the Church’s interests throughout this year.
&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I think Dolan is great. When he candidly stated in an interview with the Wall Street Journal’s James Taranto that Humanae Vitae “brought such a tsunami of dissent, departure, disapproval of the church, that I think most of us—and I’m using the first-person plural intentionally, including myself—kind of subconsciously said, ‘Whoa. We’d better never talk about that, because it’s just too hot to handle&#039; ...  we forfeited the chance to be a coherent moral voice when it comes to one of the more burning issues of the day,&quot; that struck me as the words of a humble man with integrity who had made a decision to start dealing with the contemporary threats to Christianity realistically.

Obviously, I think inviting Obama to the Al Smith dinner, especially since Cardinal O’Connor did not invite President Clinton (thanks for that bit of information, jane kosco), was a huge mistake, but there will be plenty of opportunities to make sound decisions in the coming months that give glory to God and lead the flock by setting an example of taking up the cross and following Christ in spite of the unjust condemnation by the world that will bring upon the Church.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, George,</p>
<blockquote><p><i><br />
I still support Dolan, as he has done a lot to defend the Church’s interests throughout this year.<br />
</i></p></blockquote>
<p>I think Dolan is great. When he candidly stated in an interview with the Wall Street Journal’s James Taranto that Humanae Vitae “brought such a tsunami of dissent, departure, disapproval of the church, that I think most of us—and I’m using the first-person plural intentionally, including myself—kind of subconsciously said, ‘Whoa. We’d better never talk about that, because it’s just too hot to handle&#8217; &#8230;  we forfeited the chance to be a coherent moral voice when it comes to one of the more burning issues of the day,&#8221; that struck me as the words of a humble man with integrity who had made a decision to start dealing with the contemporary threats to Christianity realistically.</p>
<p>Obviously, I think inviting Obama to the Al Smith dinner, especially since Cardinal O’Connor did not invite President Clinton (thanks for that bit of information, jane kosco), was a huge mistake, but there will be plenty of opportunities to make sound decisions in the coming months that give glory to God and lead the flock by setting an example of taking up the cross and following Christ in spite of the unjust condemnation by the world that will bring upon the Church.</p>
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