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	<title>Comments on: Spiritual Consumers</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/20/spiritual-consumers/</link>
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		<title>By: Carson</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/20/spiritual-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-70024</link>
		<dc:creator>Carson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2012 13:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46427#comment-70024</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;There is little to no possibility that a young lay Catholic (or even old lay Catholic) would be able to have any prospect of improving impoverished services or wayward sermons in their parish&quot;

As Wikipedia would say, citation needed.  Of course nothing&#039;s going to change if people don&#039;t try to change it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There is little to no possibility that a young lay Catholic (or even old lay Catholic) would be able to have any prospect of improving impoverished services or wayward sermons in their parish&#8221;</p>
<p>As Wikipedia would say, citation needed.  Of course nothing&#8217;s going to change if people don&#8217;t try to change it.</p>
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		<title>By: DrDoctorDr</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/20/spiritual-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-69976</link>
		<dc:creator>DrDoctorDr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2012 23:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46427#comment-69976</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;At least if “the services on offer in their bailiwick [are] in some sense impoverished, or the preaching theologically wayward, or the architecture grossly midcentury,” those are all easily identifiable problems, and can, with effort these young folks aren’t willing to put in (I’m in this age group myself, so I know whereof I speak), be fixed. Instead you’re going to go to a parish whose problems you overlook?&quot;

There is little to no possibility that a young lay Catholic (or even old lay Catholic) would be able to have any prospect of improving impoverished services or wayward sermons in their parish, and the only way mid-century architecture is likely to be overcome is by parishes consolidating into more traditional-style buildings.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;At least if “the services on offer in their bailiwick [are] in some sense impoverished, or the preaching theologically wayward, or the architecture grossly midcentury,” those are all easily identifiable problems, and can, with effort these young folks aren’t willing to put in (I’m in this age group myself, so I know whereof I speak), be fixed. Instead you’re going to go to a parish whose problems you overlook?&#8221;</p>
<p>There is little to no possibility that a young lay Catholic (or even old lay Catholic) would be able to have any prospect of improving impoverished services or wayward sermons in their parish, and the only way mid-century architecture is likely to be overcome is by parishes consolidating into more traditional-style buildings.</p>
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		<title>By: Carson</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/20/spiritual-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-69753</link>
		<dc:creator>Carson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 15:04:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46427#comment-69753</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps it&#039;s because I&#039;m not Catholic, I don&#039;t find this &quot;dilemma&quot; sympathetic at all.  It seems to me that those who regularly travel to attend services at parishes which are more &quot;orthodox&quot; are at best thoroughly inculcated with the Protestant mindset of the culture, and at worst, tending towards heresy.

More practically, what these folks don&#039;t seem to realize is that every parish has problems because people are people.  At least if &quot;the services on offer in their bailiwick [are] in some sense impoverished, or the preaching theologically wayward, or the architecture grossly midcentury,&quot;  those are all easily identifiable problems, and can, with effort these young folks aren&#039;t willing to put in (I&#039;m in this age group myself, so I know whereof I speak), be fixed.  Instead you&#039;re going to go to a parish whose problems you overlook?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps it&#8217;s because I&#8217;m not Catholic, I don&#8217;t find this &#8220;dilemma&#8221; sympathetic at all.  It seems to me that those who regularly travel to attend services at parishes which are more &#8220;orthodox&#8221; are at best thoroughly inculcated with the Protestant mindset of the culture, and at worst, tending towards heresy.</p>
<p>More practically, what these folks don&#8217;t seem to realize is that every parish has problems because people are people.  At least if &#8220;the services on offer in their bailiwick [are] in some sense impoverished, or the preaching theologically wayward, or the architecture grossly midcentury,&#8221;  those are all easily identifiable problems, and can, with effort these young folks aren&#8217;t willing to put in (I&#8217;m in this age group myself, so I know whereof I speak), be fixed.  Instead you&#8217;re going to go to a parish whose problems you overlook?</p>
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		<title>By: Martha</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/20/spiritual-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-69710</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2012 02:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46427#comment-69710</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Young Catholics often travel to a parish where other young Catholics are - attending their local parish often results in feeling like worshipping in a petri dish. Young Catholics want companionship and a chance to meet their future spouse - and that&#039;s going to happen where other people of their age and persuasion are meeting. 

To the extent that these orthodox young people need to be coming back into the Church as an institution, I agree. But the Church feels divided and so does their experience of it - priests who discourage their pursuit of virtue, parishoners who belittle their fervor, and a general feeling of unwelcome. 

At this point, I think many young people are just waiting for the old guard to die.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Young Catholics often travel to a parish where other young Catholics are &#8211; attending their local parish often results in feeling like worshipping in a petri dish. Young Catholics want companionship and a chance to meet their future spouse &#8211; and that&#8217;s going to happen where other people of their age and persuasion are meeting. </p>
<p>To the extent that these orthodox young people need to be coming back into the Church as an institution, I agree. But the Church feels divided and so does their experience of it &#8211; priests who discourage their pursuit of virtue, parishoners who belittle their fervor, and a general feeling of unwelcome. </p>
<p>At this point, I think many young people are just waiting for the old guard to die.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/20/spiritual-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-69702</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 23:32:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46427#comment-69702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;We’ve become, maybe by accident, accustomed to a sort of &#039;remnant&#039; mindset rather than an institutional one, to prophetic denunciations from without but with not enough &#039;working within.&#039;&quot;

Parishes have encouraged this mindset in part by offering &quot;tailored&quot; events like Life Teen Masses and a wide variety of multi-lingual liturgies. Add that to the general disintegration of Catholic communities within parish boundaries, and it&#039;s understandable that young people don&#039;t feel like they are truly a part of their canonical parishes. The attraction of specialty Masses—ranging the spectrum from traditional to charismatic—and the like are seen as an opportunity to work out what it means to build a future for the Church. All culture comes from cult, after all, and without that common ground, it&#039;s difficult to build a religious future.

But it&#039;s also worth considering that the attraction of some of these communities revolves around the solid preaching of Catholic doctrine, and since the individual&#039;s first moral responsibility is to save his own soul, he rightly deduces that it is more urgent to receive moral formation than it is to worry about his parish community. It&#039;s an unfortunate reality that most parishes not only avoid teaching moral doctrine, but frequently undermine it from the pulpit. One must see to himself first of all, and then do what he can for others. Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We’ve become, maybe by accident, accustomed to a sort of &#8216;remnant&#8217; mindset rather than an institutional one, to prophetic denunciations from without but with not enough &#8216;working within.&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>Parishes have encouraged this mindset in part by offering &#8220;tailored&#8221; events like Life Teen Masses and a wide variety of multi-lingual liturgies. Add that to the general disintegration of Catholic communities within parish boundaries, and it&#8217;s understandable that young people don&#8217;t feel like they are truly a part of their canonical parishes. The attraction of specialty Masses—ranging the spectrum from traditional to charismatic—and the like are seen as an opportunity to work out what it means to build a future for the Church. All culture comes from cult, after all, and without that common ground, it&#8217;s difficult to build a religious future.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s also worth considering that the attraction of some of these communities revolves around the solid preaching of Catholic doctrine, and since the individual&#8217;s first moral responsibility is to save his own soul, he rightly deduces that it is more urgent to receive moral formation than it is to worry about his parish community. It&#8217;s an unfortunate reality that most parishes not only avoid teaching moral doctrine, but frequently undermine it from the pulpit. One must see to himself first of all, and then do what he can for others. Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all that.</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/20/spiritual-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-69693</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46427#comment-69693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Faj,

Perhaps there is some truth to both your and Mr. Cantirino&#039;s experiences.

Older generations of Catholics are not monoliths, there is no reason why millennial Catholics should be either.

To add my experience: 

I live in a historically Catholic, very young, east coast city.  I have noticed that younger Catholics, whether traditional or not, seem to be very invested in their parishes.  Also, about half of the people I see at daily masses here fall into the 20-35 age group.  I think it&#039;s a very good sign.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Faj,</p>
<p>Perhaps there is some truth to both your and Mr. Cantirino&#8217;s experiences.</p>
<p>Older generations of Catholics are not monoliths, there is no reason why millennial Catholics should be either.</p>
<p>To add my experience: </p>
<p>I live in a historically Catholic, very young, east coast city.  I have noticed that younger Catholics, whether traditional or not, seem to be very invested in their parishes.  Also, about half of the people I see at daily masses here fall into the 20-35 age group.  I think it&#8217;s a very good sign.</p>
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		<title>By: Faj Ashua</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/08/20/spiritual-consumers/comment-page-1/#comment-69652</link>
		<dc:creator>Faj Ashua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2012 18:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=46427#comment-69652</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The author&#039;s anecdotal evidence may be limited by the breadth of his source material: if anything, I happen to be seeing the opposite trend among young Catholics, who choose not to be &quot;one of those&quot; fanatical Catholics that allows their Church to have an impact on their life beyond the basic cult requirements. Minimalist and Recusant Catholicism is still alive and well, so long as the Mythical Franciscan Platitude continues to pre-empt the Great Commission. http://www.focusequip.org/blog/posts/did-francis-really-say-preach-gospel-use-words.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The author&#8217;s anecdotal evidence may be limited by the breadth of his source material: if anything, I happen to be seeing the opposite trend among young Catholics, who choose not to be &#8220;one of those&#8221; fanatical Catholics that allows their Church to have an impact on their life beyond the basic cult requirements. Minimalist and Recusant Catholicism is still alive and well, so long as the Mythical Franciscan Platitude continues to pre-empt the Great Commission. <a href="http://www.focusequip.org/blog/posts/did-francis-really-say-preach-gospel-use-words.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.focusequip.org/blog/posts/did-francis-really-say-preach-gospel-use-words.html</a></p>
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