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	<title>Comments on: Thomas Szasz and the Psychiatrization of Political Disagreements</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/11/thomas-szasz-and-the-psychiatrization-of-political-disagreements/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/11/thomas-szasz-and-the-psychiatrization-of-political-disagreements/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
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		<title>By: BK</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/11/thomas-szasz-and-the-psychiatrization-of-political-disagreements/comment-page-1/#comment-73773</link>
		<dc:creator>BK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 18:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47600#comment-73773</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[War is not a biological illness.  Neither are other behaviors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>War is not a biological illness.  Neither are other behaviors.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/11/thomas-szasz-and-the-psychiatrization-of-political-disagreements/comment-page-1/#comment-73765</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 17:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47600#comment-73765</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;We do not say the person is abnormal or has bad chemistry.&quot;

Oh yes we do.  We call it an illness.

I hope this helps clear that up a bit for you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We do not say the person is abnormal or has bad chemistry.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh yes we do.  We call it an illness.</p>
<p>I hope this helps clear that up a bit for you.</p>
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		<title>By: BK</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/11/thomas-szasz-and-the-psychiatrization-of-political-disagreements/comment-page-1/#comment-73727</link>
		<dc:creator>BK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 16:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47600#comment-73727</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And the idea of an analogy to pathogen or injury is helpful but an over simplified metaphor.   
   A persons behavior also involves choice, will, responsibility, relationship, desire, love, hate..etc..etc...    That is one reason Szasz did not like to make his point from the bio stance...
   It is like concentrating on the size of a solders muscle to explain world war II.   Sure stronger solders were helpful but were not the reason for the complexity of nations fighting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the idea of an analogy to pathogen or injury is helpful but an over simplified metaphor.<br />
   A persons behavior also involves choice, will, responsibility, relationship, desire, love, hate..etc..etc&#8230;    That is one reason Szasz did not like to make his point from the bio stance&#8230;<br />
   It is like concentrating on the size of a solders muscle to explain world war II.   Sure stronger solders were helpful but were not the reason for the complexity of nations fighting.</p>
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		<title>By: BK</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/11/thomas-szasz-and-the-psychiatrization-of-political-disagreements/comment-page-1/#comment-73705</link>
		<dc:creator>BK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 15:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47600#comment-73705</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mary, 
  You ask a very common question, which many find themselves confused about.
   A pathogen or injury is very different from a disease.  What change happens to the person with a pathogen or injury is not a result of that person being faulty or abnormal.   Rather the person has a response to an attack by a pathogen or an injury.   And the way we work with that is keep the person safe from further injury and allow the body heal itself or well kill the pathogen.   We do not say the person is abnormal or has bad chemistry. 
   I hope this helps clear that up a bit for you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mary,<br />
  You ask a very common question, which many find themselves confused about.<br />
   A pathogen or injury is very different from a disease.  What change happens to the person with a pathogen or injury is not a result of that person being faulty or abnormal.   Rather the person has a response to an attack by a pathogen or an injury.   And the way we work with that is keep the person safe from further injury and allow the body heal itself or well kill the pathogen.   We do not say the person is abnormal or has bad chemistry.<br />
   I hope this helps clear that up a bit for you.</p>
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		<title>By: A.M.</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/11/thomas-szasz-and-the-psychiatrization-of-political-disagreements/comment-page-1/#comment-73297</link>
		<dc:creator>A.M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47600#comment-73297</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The best &#039;psychiatrist&#039; after our Lord Himself , is His Mother - whose Holy Name , The Church venerates today ..
In her apparitions before the genocide that was to bring bloodbath to Rwanda , She warned her children , to put aside hatred ..to meditate in her sufferings ..the country did heed so to that invitation after the massacres ..and inturn , has been blessed with peace ..

She has given the rosary of the Seven Sorrows , as remedy for personaliy disorders , which are considered as rather incurable ..yet , the sense of oneness brough on through such mediations help human hearts to heal , from the sense of abandonment and hatreds that linger ..to know that a Mother was allowed to go through such, for our sake - to know that She understands and is there , in the strenght of The Spirit , to pour out that Spirit , into our hearts ..
True, when it comes to major psychiatric disprders where the person is a risk to self or others , meds can be helpful ..

yet , the better collaboration of faith based treatments , such as esp. readings of the word ..may be the Lamenations , pslams  book of Job .. holy chants , exorcism prayers ..hopefully an area that would continue to evolve , to bring the Peace that The Lord promised as His gift !]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best &#8216;psychiatrist&#8217; after our Lord Himself , is His Mother &#8211; whose Holy Name , The Church venerates today ..<br />
In her apparitions before the genocide that was to bring bloodbath to Rwanda , She warned her children , to put aside hatred ..to meditate in her sufferings ..the country did heed so to that invitation after the massacres ..and inturn , has been blessed with peace ..</p>
<p>She has given the rosary of the Seven Sorrows , as remedy for personaliy disorders , which are considered as rather incurable ..yet , the sense of oneness brough on through such mediations help human hearts to heal , from the sense of abandonment and hatreds that linger ..to know that a Mother was allowed to go through such, for our sake &#8211; to know that She understands and is there , in the strenght of The Spirit , to pour out that Spirit , into our hearts ..<br />
True, when it comes to major psychiatric disprders where the person is a risk to self or others , meds can be helpful ..</p>
<p>yet , the better collaboration of faith based treatments , such as esp. readings of the word ..may be the Lamenations , pslams  book of Job .. holy chants , exorcism prayers ..hopefully an area that would continue to evolve , to bring the Peace that The Lord promised as His gift !</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/11/thomas-szasz-and-the-psychiatrization-of-political-disagreements/comment-page-1/#comment-73081</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nickol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 15:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47600#comment-73081</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Of course, by the same token, would that take in any disease not caused by a pathogen? Severe allergic reactions — it’s their immune system, who’s to say its ferocious attack on some harmless substance is not normal?&lt;/i&gt;

Mary,

It seems to me, from one perspective at least, what is a pathogen and what is a disease are judgment calls, just as it is not all that easy to decide whether some people with atypical behavior should be called mentally ill. A lot of attention is being paid recently to the &quot;human biome&quot;—the 10 trillion microorganisms that live on and in the human body and outnumber human cells 10 to 1. The human body is massively &quot;infected&quot; with microorganisms, some of which may be partly beneficial and partly detrimental. How do we decided which &quot;infections&quot; constitute &quot;diseases&quot;?  Some microorganisms may be entirely beneficial, some may be entirely harmful, but some may have both beneficial and harmful effects. 

It also depends on whose perspective you take. A cold is miserable for you, but it is a great opportunity for the cold virus to reproduce and thrive, which is what it&#039;s &quot;supposed&quot; to do. 

As for mental illness, who is to say that someone who is mildly bipolar and extremely productive in the manic phase has a &quot;disease&quot;? Or who would say that someone who is extraordinarily cheerful and optimistic in bad times is diseased even if it turns out their brain chemistry is the opposite of that of a depressed person?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Of course, by the same token, would that take in any disease not caused by a pathogen? Severe allergic reactions — it’s their immune system, who’s to say its ferocious attack on some harmless substance is not normal?</i></p>
<p>Mary,</p>
<p>It seems to me, from one perspective at least, what is a pathogen and what is a disease are judgment calls, just as it is not all that easy to decide whether some people with atypical behavior should be called mentally ill. A lot of attention is being paid recently to the &#8220;human biome&#8221;—the 10 trillion microorganisms that live on and in the human body and outnumber human cells 10 to 1. The human body is massively &#8220;infected&#8221; with microorganisms, some of which may be partly beneficial and partly detrimental. How do we decided which &#8220;infections&#8221; constitute &#8220;diseases&#8221;?  Some microorganisms may be entirely beneficial, some may be entirely harmful, but some may have both beneficial and harmful effects. </p>
<p>It also depends on whose perspective you take. A cold is miserable for you, but it is a great opportunity for the cold virus to reproduce and thrive, which is what it&#8217;s &#8220;supposed&#8221; to do. </p>
<p>As for mental illness, who is to say that someone who is mildly bipolar and extremely productive in the manic phase has a &#8220;disease&#8221;? Or who would say that someone who is extraordinarily cheerful and optimistic in bad times is diseased even if it turns out their brain chemistry is the opposite of that of a depressed person?</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/11/thomas-szasz-and-the-psychiatrization-of-political-disagreements/comment-page-1/#comment-72992</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 11:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47600#comment-72992</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Who is to say that someone whose brain chemistry results in severe depression, or alternating states of mania and depression, is not “normal” for them. It is their brain chemistry, after all. &quot;

Of course, by the same token, would that take in any disease not caused by a pathogen?  Severe allergic reactions -- it&#039;s their immune system, who&#039;s to say its ferocious attack on some harmless substance is not normal?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Who is to say that someone whose brain chemistry results in severe depression, or alternating states of mania and depression, is not “normal” for them. It is their brain chemistry, after all. &#8221;</p>
<p>Of course, by the same token, would that take in any disease not caused by a pathogen?  Severe allergic reactions &#8212; it&#8217;s their immune system, who&#8217;s to say its ferocious attack on some harmless substance is not normal?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael P. Walsh, MM</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/11/thomas-szasz-and-the-psychiatrization-of-political-disagreements/comment-page-1/#comment-72972</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael P. Walsh, MM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 10:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47600#comment-72972</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I seem to recall that Dr. Paul McHugh --an occasional contributor to these pages-- had a rather different take on the career and opinions of Dr. Szasz, and the consequences  and his work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I seem to recall that Dr. Paul McHugh &#8211;an occasional contributor to these pages&#8211; had a rather different take on the career and opinions of Dr. Szasz, and the consequences  and his work.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael PS</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/11/thomas-szasz-and-the-psychiatrization-of-political-disagreements/comment-page-1/#comment-72933</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 08:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47600#comment-72933</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michel Foucault&#039;s 1961 classic « Folie et déraison: Histoire de la folie à l&#039;âge classique » argues along very much the same lines, particularly that the conceptual distinction between the mad and the reasonable was, in a sense, a product of their physical separation through confinement

&quot;...modern man no longer communicates with the madman [...] There is no common language: or rather, it no longer exists; the constitution of madness as mental illness, at the end of the eighteenth century, bears witness to a rupture in a dialogue, gives the separation as already enacted, and expels from the memory all those imperfect words, of no fixed syntax, spoken falteringly, in which the exchange between madness and reason was carried out. The language of psychiatry, which is a monologue by reason about madness, could only have come into existence in such a silence.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michel Foucault&#8217;s 1961 classic « Folie et déraison: Histoire de la folie à l&#8217;âge classique » argues along very much the same lines, particularly that the conceptual distinction between the mad and the reasonable was, in a sense, a product of their physical separation through confinement</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;modern man no longer communicates with the madman [...] There is no common language: or rather, it no longer exists; the constitution of madness as mental illness, at the end of the eighteenth century, bears witness to a rupture in a dialogue, gives the separation as already enacted, and expels from the memory all those imperfect words, of no fixed syntax, spoken falteringly, in which the exchange between madness and reason was carried out. The language of psychiatry, which is a monologue by reason about madness, could only have come into existence in such a silence.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: BK</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/11/thomas-szasz-and-the-psychiatrization-of-political-disagreements/comment-page-1/#comment-72828</link>
		<dc:creator>BK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 03:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47600#comment-72828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would suggest you read &quot;The Myth of Mental Illness&quot; and pay special attention to the second half of the book on the protolanguage of the body.  What he calls &#039;bodily signs&#039; do not result from a &#039;biological disease&#039; but is a result of problems in communication and problems is living.
  Our body changes with experiences in living.  These changes are not caused by a biological disease.    Example:  Neglected orphans have enlarged ventricles.  This does not translate into them having a biological illness..they had experienced problems in living, stress, neglect and paucity of healthy human communication.
   Anybody who argues that a brain change translates into biologically based mental illness is either exceptionally simple minded or have alternative dishonest intentions and goals that cloud clear-thinking.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would suggest you read &#8220;The Myth of Mental Illness&#8221; and pay special attention to the second half of the book on the protolanguage of the body.  What he calls &#8216;bodily signs&#8217; do not result from a &#8216;biological disease&#8217; but is a result of problems in communication and problems is living.<br />
  Our body changes with experiences in living.  These changes are not caused by a biological disease.    Example:  Neglected orphans have enlarged ventricles.  This does not translate into them having a biological illness..they had experienced problems in living, stress, neglect and paucity of healthy human communication.<br />
   Anybody who argues that a brain change translates into biologically based mental illness is either exceptionally simple minded or have alternative dishonest intentions and goals that cloud clear-thinking.</p>
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