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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Many Egg-Donor Recruiters Ignore Ethical Standards&#8221;: Reuters</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/12/many-egg-donor-recruiters-ignore-ethical-standards-reuters/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Michael PS</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/12/many-egg-donor-recruiters-ignore-ethical-standards-reuters/comment-page-1/#comment-74179</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2012 11:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47698#comment-74179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In Civil Law countries, the Roman Law notion of “res extra commercium” [things outwith commerce] is applied to cases of assisted reproduction.

Thus, in the French Civil Code, Art 1128 lays down the general principle, “Only things in commerce can be the subject of an agreement”

No one can own human genetic material.  This is excluded by the general terms of Art. 16-1 “The human body, its elements and its products may not form the subject of a patrimonial right.” This, too, is Roman - &quot;Dominus membrorum suorum nemo videtur&quot;: no-one is to be regarded as the owner of his own limbs, says Ulpian in D.9.2.13. pr.

Art. 16-5 reinforces Art 1128, by providing that “Agreements that have the effect of bestowing a patrimonial value to the human body, its elements or products are void” and, out of an abundance of caution,  Art. 16-7 provides that “All agreements relating to procreation or gestation on account of a third party are void.”

This seems to me the correct approach.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Civil Law countries, the Roman Law notion of “res extra commercium” [things outwith commerce] is applied to cases of assisted reproduction.</p>
<p>Thus, in the French Civil Code, Art 1128 lays down the general principle, “Only things in commerce can be the subject of an agreement”</p>
<p>No one can own human genetic material.  This is excluded by the general terms of Art. 16-1 “The human body, its elements and its products may not form the subject of a patrimonial right.” This, too, is Roman &#8211; &#8220;Dominus membrorum suorum nemo videtur&#8221;: no-one is to be regarded as the owner of his own limbs, says Ulpian in D.9.2.13. pr.</p>
<p>Art. 16-5 reinforces Art 1128, by providing that “Agreements that have the effect of bestowing a patrimonial value to the human body, its elements or products are void” and, out of an abundance of caution,  Art. 16-7 provides that “All agreements relating to procreation or gestation on account of a third party are void.”</p>
<p>This seems to me the correct approach.</p>
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		<title>By: MT Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/12/many-egg-donor-recruiters-ignore-ethical-standards-reuters/comment-page-1/#comment-73755</link>
		<dc:creator>MT Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 17:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47698#comment-73755</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My wife and met once with a fertility specialist.  At one point he brought up the donor egg option.  On the ride home, I told my wife, &quot;That sounds too much like a high tech version of the Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar story for my comfort.&quot;  
Putting a couple of layers of technology in the midst of the process doesn&#039;t negate that, in the end, I&#039;d would have been fathering another woman&#039;s child.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My wife and met once with a fertility specialist.  At one point he brought up the donor egg option.  On the ride home, I told my wife, &#8220;That sounds too much like a high tech version of the Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar story for my comfort.&#8221;<br />
Putting a couple of layers of technology in the midst of the process doesn&#8217;t negate that, in the end, I&#8217;d would have been fathering another woman&#8217;s child.</p>
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		<title>By: Greggo</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/12/many-egg-donor-recruiters-ignore-ethical-standards-reuters/comment-page-1/#comment-73730</link>
		<dc:creator>Greggo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 16:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47698#comment-73730</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Doesn&#039;t it make sense to &quot;compensate&quot; a college graduate at a greater rate than a high school drop out in every endeavor? Aren&#039;t professional atheletes paid for their physical abilities? Aren&#039;t individuals with expirience prefered over first timers? I guess this is eugenics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t it make sense to &#8220;compensate&#8221; a college graduate at a greater rate than a high school drop out in every endeavor? Aren&#8217;t professional atheletes paid for their physical abilities? Aren&#8217;t individuals with expirience prefered over first timers? I guess this is eugenics.</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/12/many-egg-donor-recruiters-ignore-ethical-standards-reuters/comment-page-1/#comment-73721</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nickol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 15:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47698#comment-73721</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I assume you’re equally against sperm donation?&lt;/i&gt;

Ray Ingles,

I asked myself that when I wrote the above message, and I didn&#039;t have a good answer. But in thinking about it, I am somewhat surprised to find myself leaning in the direction of opposing both egg donation and sperm donation. It might even be argued that sperm donation is the more indefensible of the two. For example, see the &lt;i&gt;New York Times&lt;/i&gt; article &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/06/health/06donor.html?pagewanted=all&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;One Sperm Donor, 150 Offspring.&lt;/a&gt; There is something very disturbing about the idea of mass producing one man&#039;s children.

Put me down as tentatively opposed to sperm donation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I assume you’re equally against sperm donation?</i></p>
<p>Ray Ingles,</p>
<p>I asked myself that when I wrote the above message, and I didn&#8217;t have a good answer. But in thinking about it, I am somewhat surprised to find myself leaning in the direction of opposing both egg donation and sperm donation. It might even be argued that sperm donation is the more indefensible of the two. For example, see the <i>New York Times</i> article <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/06/health/06donor.html?pagewanted=all" rel="nofollow">One Sperm Donor, 150 Offspring.</a> There is something very disturbing about the idea of mass producing one man&#8217;s children.</p>
<p>Put me down as tentatively opposed to sperm donation.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Ingles</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/12/many-egg-donor-recruiters-ignore-ethical-standards-reuters/comment-page-1/#comment-73695</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Ingles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 15:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47698#comment-73695</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David Nickol - I assume you&#039;re equally against sperm donation?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Nickol &#8211; I assume you&#8217;re equally against sperm donation?</p>
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		<title>By: pentamom</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/12/many-egg-donor-recruiters-ignore-ethical-standards-reuters/comment-page-1/#comment-73691</link>
		<dc:creator>pentamom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 14:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47698#comment-73691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Besides what David N said, with which I wholeheartedly agree, I found this sentence very telling:

&quot;Ethical standards set forth by the ASRM specify that donors should be at least 21 years old, and those between ages 18 and 20 should receive a psychiatric evaluation first.&quot;

Translation:  it is unethical to use girls under 21, but if you&#039;re going to be unethical in that way, please follow these ethical guidelines.

That kind of &quot;this is not ethical, but we know you&#039;re going to be unethical so please try to be a little less unethical&quot; double-talk *built right into the ethical guidelines* is like a megaphone announcing that the whole enterprise is morally compromised from the start.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Besides what David N said, with which I wholeheartedly agree, I found this sentence very telling:</p>
<p>&#8220;Ethical standards set forth by the ASRM specify that donors should be at least 21 years old, and those between ages 18 and 20 should receive a psychiatric evaluation first.&#8221;</p>
<p>Translation:  it is unethical to use girls under 21, but if you&#8217;re going to be unethical in that way, please follow these ethical guidelines.</p>
<p>That kind of &#8220;this is not ethical, but we know you&#8217;re going to be unethical so please try to be a little less unethical&#8221; double-talk *built right into the ethical guidelines* is like a megaphone announcing that the whole enterprise is morally compromised from the start.</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/12/many-egg-donor-recruiters-ignore-ethical-standards-reuters/comment-page-1/#comment-73644</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nickol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 13:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47698#comment-73644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is the buying and selling of what ought not to be bought and sold. Ethical guidelines cannot regulate something that is inherently unethical. Egg &quot;donation&quot; ought to be prohibited.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the buying and selling of what ought not to be bought and sold. Ethical guidelines cannot regulate something that is inherently unethical. Egg &#8220;donation&#8221; ought to be prohibited.</p>
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