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	<title>Comments on: Stop Berating the &#8220;47 Percent&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: Absurd Republican Rhetoric &#187; First Thoughts &#124; A First Things Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/17/stop-lying-about-the-47-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-75461</link>
		<dc:creator>Absurd Republican Rhetoric &#187; First Thoughts &#124; A First Things Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2012 00:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47931#comment-75461</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Matthew Schmitz, Stop Berating the &#8220;47 Percent&#8221; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Matthew Schmitz, Stop Berating the &#8220;47 Percent&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/17/stop-lying-about-the-47-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-75194</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nickol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47931#comment-75194</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Lynne — it’s all confiscatory at current levels. I just don’t think it’s very “republican” to whine that people aren’t being overtaxed more than they are.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jun/29/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-tax-rates-are-lowest-1950s-ceos-/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Taxes are at their lowest levels since the 1950s. It&#039;s a fact.&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Lynne — it’s all confiscatory at current levels. I just don’t think it’s very “republican” to whine that people aren’t being overtaxed more than they are.</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jun/29/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-tax-rates-are-lowest-1950s-ceos-/" rel="nofollow">Taxes are at their lowest levels since the 1950s. It&#8217;s a fact.</a></p>
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		<title>By: pentamom</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/17/stop-lying-about-the-47-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-75146</link>
		<dc:creator>pentamom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 13:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47931#comment-75146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lynne --  it&#039;s all confiscatory at current levels. I just don&#039;t think it&#039;s very &quot;republican&quot; to whine that people aren&#039;t being overtaxed more than they are.

Who says I have no skin in the game? I simply don&#039;t think that ensuring that more people pay more into the government black hole, rather than making EVERYONE pay less, is the path to economic health, fairness, or anything else worth having.

Publius, I never denied that there is an entitlement mentality or an entitlement problem. It&#039;s lumping working people into the &quot;entitlement&quot; or &quot;takers&quot; pot simply because their income doesn&#039;t rise high enough to owe taxes that I object to. Not paying income taxes is not necessarily &quot;taking&quot; anything, unless you&#039;re of the leftist persuasion that dime one belongs to the government and every penny that you&#039;re allowed to keep is by the grace of government and a &quot;subsidy&quot; of your family.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lynne &#8212;  it&#8217;s all confiscatory at current levels. I just don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s very &#8220;republican&#8221; to whine that people aren&#8217;t being overtaxed more than they are.</p>
<p>Who says I have no skin in the game? I simply don&#8217;t think that ensuring that more people pay more into the government black hole, rather than making EVERYONE pay less, is the path to economic health, fairness, or anything else worth having.</p>
<p>Publius, I never denied that there is an entitlement mentality or an entitlement problem. It&#8217;s lumping working people into the &#8220;entitlement&#8221; or &#8220;takers&#8221; pot simply because their income doesn&#8217;t rise high enough to owe taxes that I object to. Not paying income taxes is not necessarily &#8220;taking&#8221; anything, unless you&#8217;re of the leftist persuasion that dime one belongs to the government and every penny that you&#8217;re allowed to keep is by the grace of government and a &#8220;subsidy&#8221; of your family.</p>
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		<title>By: Liam</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/17/stop-lying-about-the-47-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-75134</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 12:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47931#comment-75134</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The fastest rising segment for Medicaid assistance is...the very elderly, whose proportion of our population has increased dramatically over the past 3 decades. Lots more white-haired folks (mostly women) who have spent down their own resources (or, if better off, had lawyers transfer money to trusts before Medicare got to grab any of it; this is a trick poor and working class folks can&#039;t afford to do . . . .), then capped out of Medicare and are now in various forms of community living on Medicaid. They are living a lot longer than actuaries would have predicted, because they took care of themselves; many now have degenerative diseases of very old age, which are expensive. 

If one is saying these very elderly folks should get off their dependence on means-tested public assistance, I have a haunting two-word phrase that comes immediately to mind: death panels. The culture of life and the culture of bean-counting  are not always in harmony, and sometimes are in deep dissonance. Our Lord had something to say about God&#039;s bean-counting system being different than the one man prefers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fastest rising segment for Medicaid assistance is&#8230;the very elderly, whose proportion of our population has increased dramatically over the past 3 decades. Lots more white-haired folks (mostly women) who have spent down their own resources (or, if better off, had lawyers transfer money to trusts before Medicare got to grab any of it; this is a trick poor and working class folks can&#8217;t afford to do . . . .), then capped out of Medicare and are now in various forms of community living on Medicaid. They are living a lot longer than actuaries would have predicted, because they took care of themselves; many now have degenerative diseases of very old age, which are expensive. </p>
<p>If one is saying these very elderly folks should get off their dependence on means-tested public assistance, I have a haunting two-word phrase that comes immediately to mind: death panels. The culture of life and the culture of bean-counting  are not always in harmony, and sometimes are in deep dissonance. Our Lord had something to say about God&#8217;s bean-counting system being different than the one man prefers.</p>
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		<title>By: Lynne</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/17/stop-lying-about-the-47-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-75130</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 05:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47931#comment-75130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pentamom, it would seem to me that anyone in the middle-class, lower or not, should be paying at least some federal income taxes.  The fact that you consider such taxes &quot;confiscatory&quot; seems to say a lot about your personal entitlement mentality.  Why would you consider paying federal income taxes yourself &quot;confiscatory&quot;, but relying on those with either more income, or less children, than you to pay more in taxes so that you may pay none, not &quot;confiscatory&quot;?

When one has no skin in the game, the outcome of the game doesn&#039;t matter.  Given that you have children, and they and their children are the ones going to get stuck with the tab we&#039;re running, it should matter to you.  It should matter very much.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pentamom, it would seem to me that anyone in the middle-class, lower or not, should be paying at least some federal income taxes.  The fact that you consider such taxes &#8220;confiscatory&#8221; seems to say a lot about your personal entitlement mentality.  Why would you consider paying federal income taxes yourself &#8220;confiscatory&#8221;, but relying on those with either more income, or less children, than you to pay more in taxes so that you may pay none, not &#8220;confiscatory&#8221;?</p>
<p>When one has no skin in the game, the outcome of the game doesn&#8217;t matter.  Given that you have children, and they and their children are the ones going to get stuck with the tab we&#8217;re running, it should matter to you.  It should matter very much.</p>
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		<title>By: publius</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/17/stop-lying-about-the-47-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-75028</link>
		<dc:creator>publius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 16:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47931#comment-75028</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For those who think that we have not created a  dependent class: the percentage of U.S. households receiving means tested public benefits has risen from 7 percent in 1979 to slightly more than 30 percent in 2009. This jump is not the result of an increase in unemployment, for on average the percentage of households receiving these benefits was four times greater than the unemployment rate. 

The most important question of all for those defending the entitlement state: the national debt of the United States crossed the $16 trillion mark two weeks ago. How are we going to pay for this? Many of you defend this on the grounds of compassion -- but is it compassionate to have our children and grandchildren pay for this crushing debt? Or will we stop the selfishness and admit that we cannot sustain this welfare state without dramatic  changes. And by the way, taxing millionaires won&#039;t dig us out of this entitlement hole.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those who think that we have not created a  dependent class: the percentage of U.S. households receiving means tested public benefits has risen from 7 percent in 1979 to slightly more than 30 percent in 2009. This jump is not the result of an increase in unemployment, for on average the percentage of households receiving these benefits was four times greater than the unemployment rate. </p>
<p>The most important question of all for those defending the entitlement state: the national debt of the United States crossed the $16 trillion mark two weeks ago. How are we going to pay for this? Many of you defend this on the grounds of compassion &#8212; but is it compassionate to have our children and grandchildren pay for this crushing debt? Or will we stop the selfishness and admit that we cannot sustain this welfare state without dramatic  changes. And by the way, taxing millionaires won&#8217;t dig us out of this entitlement hole.</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/17/stop-lying-about-the-47-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-75014</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nickol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 15:39:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47931#comment-75014</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;It’s also worth pointing out, as other commenters have, that when something like half the voters can vote for higher taxes for others, we are in danger of killing the golden goose.&lt;/i&gt;

Joe DeVet,

It&#039;s also worth pointing out that it is largely Republican policies (Reagan and Bush tax cuts), the EIC, and increased deductions for children that are responsible for people falling below the threshold for paying income taxes. And note that the wealthy got tax cuts as well. Also, tax rates are &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2010-05-10-taxes_N.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;historically low&lt;/a&gt; right now:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Federal, state and local income taxes consumed 9.2% of all personal income in 2009, the lowest rate since 1950, the Bureau of Economic Analysis reports. That rate is far below the historic average of 12% for the last half-century. The overall tax burden hit bottom in December at 8.8.% of income before rising slightly in the first three months of 2010.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It is also worth pointing out that since 1980, Americans, who seem to be so desperate to be dependent on the government, have elected Republican presidents for 20 out of the past 32 years. And with Obama the great redistributor of wealth being in office two years, the Republicans won back the House. 

A few months ago the conventional wisdom was that this presidential election was the Republicans&#039; to lose, and if Romney keeps this up, he &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; lose. And if he does lose, it won&#039;t be because greedy freeloaders were worried about losing their welfare checks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It’s also worth pointing out, as other commenters have, that when something like half the voters can vote for higher taxes for others, we are in danger of killing the golden goose.</i></p>
<p>Joe DeVet,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also worth pointing out that it is largely Republican policies (Reagan and Bush tax cuts), the EIC, and increased deductions for children that are responsible for people falling below the threshold for paying income taxes. And note that the wealthy got tax cuts as well. Also, tax rates are <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2010-05-10-taxes_N.htm" rel="nofollow">historically low</a> right now:</p>
<blockquote><p>Federal, state and local income taxes consumed 9.2% of all personal income in 2009, the lowest rate since 1950, the Bureau of Economic Analysis reports. That rate is far below the historic average of 12% for the last half-century. The overall tax burden hit bottom in December at 8.8.% of income before rising slightly in the first three months of 2010.</p></blockquote>
<p>It is also worth pointing out that since 1980, Americans, who seem to be so desperate to be dependent on the government, have elected Republican presidents for 20 out of the past 32 years. And with Obama the great redistributor of wealth being in office two years, the Republicans won back the House. </p>
<p>A few months ago the conventional wisdom was that this presidential election was the Republicans&#8217; to lose, and if Romney keeps this up, he <i>will</i> lose. And if he does lose, it won&#8217;t be because greedy freeloaders were worried about losing their welfare checks.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs. Jackson</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/17/stop-lying-about-the-47-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-75010</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs. Jackson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 14:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47931#comment-75010</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok, now that David Nikol has stated his reason of the day for why he thinks Mitt Romney is unfit to be president can we move on to a far more interesting revelation in Jimmy Carter&#039;s unemployed grandson&#039;s secret tapes? For the record, Mitt wasn&#039;t berating the 47% - Mitt is from Detroit. Detroit is a Example A of government and Democrat party failure on people and a city in terms of creating a dependency class, failing schools, inhospitable tax rates as well as an overall decent standard of living, yet come November the voters of Detroit who outnumber the actual residents of Detroit by the 10 of thousands if not 100s of thousands, will vote 99% Democrat.

Happily for everyone, Jimmy Carter&#039;s unemployed grandson -the guy behind the tapes - has burped up a new &quot;secret tape&quot; that has theological implications as well as is a completely honest and refreshing remark from a serious politician in years as well as a complete contrast to the absolute failure of the current administration&#039;s failed middle east policy: 

 “I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and these thorny issues, and I say, ‘There’s just no way.’” -- Mitt Romney

To add more to the conversation, here&#039;s Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu taking on CNN&#039;s Candy Crowley this past Sunday:

“There are legitimate, peaceful purposes for enriching this uranium,” said host Candy Crowley, speaking to why Iran’s activities are allowed under international agreements.
“You think so? You think so, Candy?” Netanyahu said. “That’s like Timothy McVeigh walking into a shop in Oklahoma City and saying, ‘I’d like to tend my garden. I’d like to buy some fertilizer.’ ‘How much do you want?’ ‘Oh, I don’t know, 20,000 pounds.’ Come on, we know that they’re working toward a weapon.”]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, now that David Nikol has stated his reason of the day for why he thinks Mitt Romney is unfit to be president can we move on to a far more interesting revelation in Jimmy Carter&#8217;s unemployed grandson&#8217;s secret tapes? For the record, Mitt wasn&#8217;t berating the 47% &#8211; Mitt is from Detroit. Detroit is a Example A of government and Democrat party failure on people and a city in terms of creating a dependency class, failing schools, inhospitable tax rates as well as an overall decent standard of living, yet come November the voters of Detroit who outnumber the actual residents of Detroit by the 10 of thousands if not 100s of thousands, will vote 99% Democrat.</p>
<p>Happily for everyone, Jimmy Carter&#8217;s unemployed grandson -the guy behind the tapes &#8211; has burped up a new &#8220;secret tape&#8221; that has theological implications as well as is a completely honest and refreshing remark from a serious politician in years as well as a complete contrast to the absolute failure of the current administration&#8217;s failed middle east policy: </p>
<p> “I look at the Palestinians not wanting to see peace anyway, for political purposes, committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel, and these thorny issues, and I say, ‘There’s just no way.’” &#8212; Mitt Romney</p>
<p>To add more to the conversation, here&#8217;s Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu taking on CNN&#8217;s Candy Crowley this past Sunday:</p>
<p>“There are legitimate, peaceful purposes for enriching this uranium,” said host Candy Crowley, speaking to why Iran’s activities are allowed under international agreements.<br />
“You think so? You think so, Candy?” Netanyahu said. “That’s like Timothy McVeigh walking into a shop in Oklahoma City and saying, ‘I’d like to tend my garden. I’d like to buy some fertilizer.’ ‘How much do you want?’ ‘Oh, I don’t know, 20,000 pounds.’ Come on, we know that they’re working toward a weapon.”</p>
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		<title>By: Joe DeVet</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/17/stop-lying-about-the-47-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-75007</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe DeVet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 14:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47931#comment-75007</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The whole point of reminding people about the 47% not paying income taxes is to provide some truth against the liberal fiction, flogged daily by Obama, that the rich are not paying their fair share.  

It&#039;s also worth pointing out, as other commenters have, that when something like half the voters can vote for higher taxes for others, we are in danger of killing the golden goose. 

Obama gets praised in the press for his &quot;concern&quot; about the &quot;middle class&quot;, despite his mendacious charges about lack of &quot;fairness&quot;, and despite the fact that his &quot;compassion&quot; is accomplished with others&#039; money.  Romney, by contrast, gets clobbered simply for pointing out the truth of the matter.  The truth, which we have on good authority will set us free, is always the first casualty of political correctness. 

If this is our culture as it has now evolved, then we will get (continue with) the leadership we deserve.  Lying, corrupt and immoral.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole point of reminding people about the 47% not paying income taxes is to provide some truth against the liberal fiction, flogged daily by Obama, that the rich are not paying their fair share.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s also worth pointing out, as other commenters have, that when something like half the voters can vote for higher taxes for others, we are in danger of killing the golden goose. </p>
<p>Obama gets praised in the press for his &#8220;concern&#8221; about the &#8220;middle class&#8221;, despite his mendacious charges about lack of &#8220;fairness&#8221;, and despite the fact that his &#8220;compassion&#8221; is accomplished with others&#8217; money.  Romney, by contrast, gets clobbered simply for pointing out the truth of the matter.  The truth, which we have on good authority will set us free, is always the first casualty of political correctness. </p>
<p>If this is our culture as it has now evolved, then we will get (continue with) the leadership we deserve.  Lying, corrupt and immoral.</p>
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		<title>By: pentamom</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/17/stop-lying-about-the-47-percent/comment-page-1/#comment-75005</link>
		<dc:creator>pentamom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 14:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=47931#comment-75005</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Publius, a vast proportion of that 47% is not &quot;dependent&quot; in any way, shape or form. We are self-supporting income earners who, because of a combination of lower income and/or number of children fall below the set rates for marginal income tax.

That a Republican candidate now thinks it&#039;s a problem that the lower middle class is exempt from confiscatory taxes is almost enough to make me hit the bottle.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Publius, a vast proportion of that 47% is not &#8220;dependent&#8221; in any way, shape or form. We are self-supporting income earners who, because of a combination of lower income and/or number of children fall below the set rates for marginal income tax.</p>
<p>That a Republican candidate now thinks it&#8217;s a problem that the lower middle class is exempt from confiscatory taxes is almost enough to make me hit the bottle.</p>
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