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	<title>Comments on: Obama&#8217;s Bum Rap on &#8220;You Didn&#8217;t Build That&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: pentamom</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/24/obamas-bum-rap-on-you-didnt-build-that/comment-page-1/#comment-75583</link>
		<dc:creator>pentamom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48272#comment-75583</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What reason is there to suppose that a significant number of people in the taudience harbored those thoughts (as in actually believing that they got where they are with no help from anyone) and what is the chief executive&#039;s role in addressing the vain imaginations of our hearts?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What reason is there to suppose that a significant number of people in the taudience harbored those thoughts (as in actually believing that they got where they are with no help from anyone) and what is the chief executive&#8217;s role in addressing the vain imaginations of our hearts?</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie Collier</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/24/obamas-bum-rap-on-you-didnt-build-that/comment-page-1/#comment-75578</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Collier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 18:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48272#comment-75578</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[pentamom,

Which &quot;adult citizen&quot; was the President lecturing? He made the remarks in a speech he gave at a campaign event. Near as I can tell, he was trying to disabuse us of the vain and prideful thoughts that our success in life is attributable only to our own industry and excellence, and that the work of the people in the form of good collaborative work, including good governance, had nothing to do with our prosperity. Christians of all people should have his back, not least because the alternative he was presenting was manifestly NOT some sort of government-is-God shtick.

Here&#039;s what came a paragraph or so before the infamous remark:

&quot;I’ve got a different idea. I do believe we can cut -- we’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently.  (Applause.)  Not every government program works the way it’s supposed to. And frankly, government can’t solve every problem. If somebody doesn’t want to be helped, government can’t always help them. Parents -- we can put more money into schools, but if your kids don’t want to learn it’s hard to teach them.&quot;

Then he has this to say afterwards, &quot;The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service.  That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.&quot;

So all I hear the President saying is that human collaboration, including collaboration through good government, has played an important role in the success and prosperity of many Americans. In calling his remarks &quot;fatuous,&quot; are you saying that President Obama is obviously correct about the legitimate function of good governance in contributing to social and economic success in this land?

The proof that his critique of the radical individualism rampant in our culture actually hit a nerve is the unhinged response he&#039;s been getting for saying something so &quot;fatuous.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pentamom,</p>
<p>Which &#8220;adult citizen&#8221; was the President lecturing? He made the remarks in a speech he gave at a campaign event. Near as I can tell, he was trying to disabuse us of the vain and prideful thoughts that our success in life is attributable only to our own industry and excellence, and that the work of the people in the form of good collaborative work, including good governance, had nothing to do with our prosperity. Christians of all people should have his back, not least because the alternative he was presenting was manifestly NOT some sort of government-is-God shtick.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what came a paragraph or so before the infamous remark:</p>
<p>&#8220;I’ve got a different idea. I do believe we can cut &#8212; we’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently.  (Applause.)  Not every government program works the way it’s supposed to. And frankly, government can’t solve every problem. If somebody doesn’t want to be helped, government can’t always help them. Parents &#8212; we can put more money into schools, but if your kids don’t want to learn it’s hard to teach them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Then he has this to say afterwards, &#8220;The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service.  That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.&#8221;</p>
<p>So all I hear the President saying is that human collaboration, including collaboration through good government, has played an important role in the success and prosperity of many Americans. In calling his remarks &#8220;fatuous,&#8221; are you saying that President Obama is obviously correct about the legitimate function of good governance in contributing to social and economic success in this land?</p>
<p>The proof that his critique of the radical individualism rampant in our culture actually hit a nerve is the unhinged response he&#8217;s been getting for saying something so &#8220;fatuous.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: pentamom</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/24/obamas-bum-rap-on-you-didnt-build-that/comment-page-1/#comment-75576</link>
		<dc:creator>pentamom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 17:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48272#comment-75576</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Aquinas likely said fewer fatuous things than 99.9% of people who have ever lived.

But Thomas wasn&#039;t a government official lecturing an adult citizen about that which there is every reason to believe he already knew quite as well as instructor did. I think the point has been made recently that context is important.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aquinas likely said fewer fatuous things than 99.9% of people who have ever lived.</p>
<p>But Thomas wasn&#8217;t a government official lecturing an adult citizen about that which there is every reason to believe he already knew quite as well as instructor did. I think the point has been made recently that context is important.</p>
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		<title>By: andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/24/obamas-bum-rap-on-you-didnt-build-that/comment-page-1/#comment-75573</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 16:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48272#comment-75573</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[pastor tim keller and thomas aquinas would say we continually owe our very existences -- not to mention our intellects and propensities for hard work -- to God.  ergo, let&#039;s be humble, grateful, and gracious.  which is probably not too far from what the president wanted to say.

by the way, has thomas aquinas ever said anything fatuous?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pastor tim keller and thomas aquinas would say we continually owe our very existences &#8212; not to mention our intellects and propensities for hard work &#8212; to God.  ergo, let&#8217;s be humble, grateful, and gracious.  which is probably not too far from what the president wanted to say.</p>
<p>by the way, has thomas aquinas ever said anything fatuous?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael S</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/24/obamas-bum-rap-on-you-didnt-build-that/comment-page-1/#comment-75549</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 02:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48272#comment-75549</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If we&#039;re trying to put the infamous speech in context, I think we need to back up a few more sentences:

&quot;If you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help.&quot;  [&quot;You didn&#039;t build that&quot; comes next.]

For me, the offensive part is in the middle. As I read it, the President goes beyond ideas of &quot;we&#039;re in this together&quot; and &quot;success has many fathers&quot; to state that my success depends more on the help I received than the effort I put into the business.

Perhaps he was merely inartful in constructing his argument, and perhaps I&#039;m pulling more from his choice of words than he intended. But the whole tenor of that speech, and especially the follow-up conversations, leads me to believe otherwise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we&#8217;re trying to put the infamous speech in context, I think we need to back up a few more sentences:</p>
<p>&#8220;If you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help.&#8221;  ["You didn't build that" comes next.]</p>
<p>For me, the offensive part is in the middle. As I read it, the President goes beyond ideas of &#8220;we&#8217;re in this together&#8221; and &#8220;success has many fathers&#8221; to state that my success depends more on the help I received than the effort I put into the business.</p>
<p>Perhaps he was merely inartful in constructing his argument, and perhaps I&#8217;m pulling more from his choice of words than he intended. But the whole tenor of that speech, and especially the follow-up conversations, leads me to believe otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/24/obamas-bum-rap-on-you-didnt-build-that/comment-page-1/#comment-75545</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 02:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48272#comment-75545</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[David Nickol,
Of course the point he was making was that we need to continue or increase funding for infrastructure. Unfortunately, there&#039;s a lot of the &#039;everything&#039; that helped create this unbelievable American system he doesn&#039;t support sustaining. He merely picks and chooses that which grows his political power.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Nickol,<br />
Of course the point he was making was that we need to continue or increase funding for infrastructure. Unfortunately, there&#8217;s a lot of the &#8216;everything&#8217; that helped create this unbelievable American system he doesn&#8217;t support sustaining. He merely picks and chooses that which grows his political power.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/24/obamas-bum-rap-on-you-didnt-build-that/comment-page-1/#comment-75542</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 01:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48272#comment-75542</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Obama&#039;s comments are far more troubling than the prevailing debate has explored. It&#039;s not merely a case of claiming credit for entrepreneurial success or the inflated role of government (On the latter, there&#039;s many examples far stronger.) The real problem in his comments is his view of the government replacing society or directing its ambitions.
When governments built bridges and power plants in the past, they were responding to private demand and public concern. In Obama&#039;s America, private activity is to be coerced toward Obama&#039;s agenda. No bother funding that bridge unless it facilitates a campaign speech, subsidize a blue state or pander to a purple state. Yes to bailing out campaign contributors. No to grants and permits for campaign opponents.
Obama was developed within the world of left-wing community organizing and the Chicago political machine. It&#039;s a culture of nepotism, back-scratching and self-protection. He has been raised to understand that one retains and grows ones power through corruption. To him, public service means the opposite of how we usually understand it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama&#8217;s comments are far more troubling than the prevailing debate has explored. It&#8217;s not merely a case of claiming credit for entrepreneurial success or the inflated role of government (On the latter, there&#8217;s many examples far stronger.) The real problem in his comments is his view of the government replacing society or directing its ambitions.<br />
When governments built bridges and power plants in the past, they were responding to private demand and public concern. In Obama&#8217;s America, private activity is to be coerced toward Obama&#8217;s agenda. No bother funding that bridge unless it facilitates a campaign speech, subsidize a blue state or pander to a purple state. Yes to bailing out campaign contributors. No to grants and permits for campaign opponents.<br />
Obama was developed within the world of left-wing community organizing and the Chicago political machine. It&#8217;s a culture of nepotism, back-scratching and self-protection. He has been raised to understand that one retains and grows ones power through corruption. To him, public service means the opposite of how we usually understand it.</p>
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		<title>By: pentamom</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/24/obamas-bum-rap-on-you-didnt-build-that/comment-page-1/#comment-75540</link>
		<dc:creator>pentamom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 01:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48272#comment-75540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I think Obama was saying nobody who has gotten anywhere can take credit for all of their accomplishments. &quot;

In that case we&#039;re back to fatuous. If that&#039;s all he was saying, then he was disabusing the person he was talking to of something he never said, and rather patronizingly, to boot. Does anyone other than sociopaths or movie or cartoon characters with funny mustaches claim that?

You can make it come out not to say that he was claiming that business owners didn&#039;t build their own businesses (and I agree, he didn&#039;t say that) but you can&#039;t make it come out to anything that indicates that he wasn&#039;t to some degree insulting or undermining a class of people he doesn&#039;t really want to credit without at least taking with one hand what he&#039;s pretending to give with the other.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think Obama was saying nobody who has gotten anywhere can take credit for all of their accomplishments. &#8221;</p>
<p>In that case we&#8217;re back to fatuous. If that&#8217;s all he was saying, then he was disabusing the person he was talking to of something he never said, and rather patronizingly, to boot. Does anyone other than sociopaths or movie or cartoon characters with funny mustaches claim that?</p>
<p>You can make it come out not to say that he was claiming that business owners didn&#8217;t build their own businesses (and I agree, he didn&#8217;t say that) but you can&#8217;t make it come out to anything that indicates that he wasn&#8217;t to some degree insulting or undermining a class of people he doesn&#8217;t really want to credit without at least taking with one hand what he&#8217;s pretending to give with the other.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/24/obamas-bum-rap-on-you-didnt-build-that/comment-page-1/#comment-75538</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 00:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48272#comment-75538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t entirely disagree with you David; still, his rather snide comments about entrepreneurs not being smarter or working harder than anyone else pretty clearly showed a certain contempt for them and an exaggerated sense of what they owe the government. So while his &quot;you didn&#039;t build that&quot; was obviously a grammatical error, I don&#039;t think it beyond the realm of possibility that it was a bit of a Freudian slip.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t entirely disagree with you David; still, his rather snide comments about entrepreneurs not being smarter or working harder than anyone else pretty clearly showed a certain contempt for them and an exaggerated sense of what they owe the government. So while his &#8220;you didn&#8217;t build that&#8221; was obviously a grammatical error, I don&#8217;t think it beyond the realm of possibility that it was a bit of a Freudian slip.</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/09/24/obamas-bum-rap-on-you-didnt-build-that/comment-page-1/#comment-75532</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nickol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Sep 2012 21:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48272#comment-75532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bless Robert George for calling it as he sees it.

I have thought since the beginning that Obama was making an even broader point than people acknowledge. He said,

&lt;blockquote&gt;If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. &lt;b&gt;There was a great teacher somewhere in your life.&lt;/b&gt; Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Some invested in roads and bridges. If you&#039;ve got a business — you didn&#039;t build that . . . . &lt;/blockquote&gt; 

The line about the great teacher seems to have been overlooked in the haste to misinterpret &quot;you didn&#039;t build that.&quot; I think Obama was saying nobody who has gotten anywhere can take credit for all of their accomplishments. He wasn&#039;t just talking about infrastructure. He was talking about &lt;i&gt;everything.&lt;/i&gt; I didn&#039;t watch the Emmy Awards last night, but I am willing to bet few if any of the recipients didn&#039;t have a list of people to thank. I certainly haven&#039;t reached a great pinnacle of success, but I could make quite a list of people and institutions without which I wouldn&#039;t be where I am today. I think Obama meant all of that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bless Robert George for calling it as he sees it.</p>
<p>I have thought since the beginning that Obama was making an even broader point than people acknowledge. He said,</p>
<blockquote><p>If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. <b>There was a great teacher somewhere in your life.</b> Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Some invested in roads and bridges. If you&#8217;ve got a business — you didn&#8217;t build that . . . . </p></blockquote>
<p>The line about the great teacher seems to have been overlooked in the haste to misinterpret &#8220;you didn&#8217;t build that.&#8221; I think Obama was saying nobody who has gotten anywhere can take credit for all of their accomplishments. He wasn&#8217;t just talking about infrastructure. He was talking about <i>everything.</i> I didn&#8217;t watch the Emmy Awards last night, but I am willing to bet few if any of the recipients didn&#8217;t have a list of people to thank. I certainly haven&#8217;t reached a great pinnacle of success, but I could make quite a list of people and institutions without which I wouldn&#8217;t be where I am today. I think Obama meant all of that.</p>
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