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	<title>Comments on: Against Mumford</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/01/against-mumford/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
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		<title>By: John Williamson Nevin</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/01/against-mumford/comment-page-1/#comment-76568</link>
		<dc:creator>John Williamson Nevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2012 18:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48688#comment-76568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Give me a break. What you are demanding of pop music is not something that it purports to give. Pop music is always the genre that underpromises and overdelivers on spiritual content. Folk music is usually the reverse. If you don&#039;t believe me, listen to Bruce Springsteen&#039;s genius talk from SXSW this year. 

Make no mistake...the Mumfords have the upper hand here. They aren&#039;t trying to feed the hungry...they&#039;re trying to remind people that the dull pain they feel in their guts can be satisfied if they don&#039;t lose heart.

One more in the name of love,

Climacus]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give me a break. What you are demanding of pop music is not something that it purports to give. Pop music is always the genre that underpromises and overdelivers on spiritual content. Folk music is usually the reverse. If you don&#8217;t believe me, listen to Bruce Springsteen&#8217;s genius talk from SXSW this year. </p>
<p>Make no mistake&#8230;the Mumfords have the upper hand here. They aren&#8217;t trying to feed the hungry&#8230;they&#8217;re trying to remind people that the dull pain they feel in their guts can be satisfied if they don&#8217;t lose heart.</p>
<p>One more in the name of love,</p>
<p>Climacus</p>
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		<title>By: The Challenge of Making Good Folk-Pop Music &#171; The Pietist Schoolman</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/01/against-mumford/comment-page-1/#comment-76558</link>
		<dc:creator>The Challenge of Making Good Folk-Pop Music &#171; The Pietist Schoolman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2012 14:06:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48688#comment-76558</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the most incisive critique along these lines came from another conservative writer, Matthew Schmitz, who finds Mumford&#8217;s songs shallow counterfeits of the actual folk music that inspired the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the most incisive critique along these lines came from another conservative writer, Matthew Schmitz, who finds Mumford&#8217;s songs shallow counterfeits of the actual folk music that inspired the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fr. Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/01/against-mumford/comment-page-1/#comment-76554</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48688#comment-76554</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You could just enjoy the music and not try to &quot;figure it out&quot;.  I think Flannery O&#039;Connor said that once about her stories.  

But true, there is a deep yearning in us to find something that touches the divine.  We want meaning.  We long for the sacred in a mundane routine world.  Like relics of saints, we want to discover the sacred and keep it as close to us as possible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You could just enjoy the music and not try to &#8220;figure it out&#8221;.  I think Flannery O&#8217;Connor said that once about her stories.  </p>
<p>But true, there is a deep yearning in us to find something that touches the divine.  We want meaning.  We long for the sacred in a mundane routine world.  Like relics of saints, we want to discover the sacred and keep it as close to us as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: RIRedinPA</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/01/against-mumford/comment-page-1/#comment-76553</link>
		<dc:creator>RIRedinPA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2012 12:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48688#comment-76553</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lighten up Francis, it&#039;s just a band. Like most bands, they entertain, they provide some escapism, maybe their reflective on society, maybe not. Who cares. If you like the music, enjoy it, if not, move on. To quote from Ratatouille:

&quot;In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face is that, in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. &quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lighten up Francis, it&#8217;s just a band. Like most bands, they entertain, they provide some escapism, maybe their reflective on society, maybe not. Who cares. If you like the music, enjoy it, if not, move on. To quote from Ratatouille:</p>
<p>&#8220;In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read. But the bitter truth we critics must face is that, in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. &#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: Matunos</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/01/against-mumford/comment-page-1/#comment-76543</link>
		<dc:creator>Matunos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 21:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48688#comment-76543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bobby Darin was never separated from his lover in the navy/merchant marine, nor was he a serial murderer.

I doubt Sinatra was forlorn over a summer love for a year.

As for folk music specifically, most folk songs are sung by people who didn&#039;t write them. Where&#039;s the authenticity in that?

Sometimes people write and perform deeply personal songs that we love, and sometimes people channel other things into their songs. I mean, do we need to delve into the authenticity of 1960&#039;s white rock and roll?

If a song moves you, it ought to make little difference if the singer&#039;s words and the band&#039;s music come from personal experiences or conviction. Lost in all this discussion about what is &quot;historical and committed&quot; is the question: Is it enjoyable? A lot of people seem to think so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bobby Darin was never separated from his lover in the navy/merchant marine, nor was he a serial murderer.</p>
<p>I doubt Sinatra was forlorn over a summer love for a year.</p>
<p>As for folk music specifically, most folk songs are sung by people who didn&#8217;t write them. Where&#8217;s the authenticity in that?</p>
<p>Sometimes people write and perform deeply personal songs that we love, and sometimes people channel other things into their songs. I mean, do we need to delve into the authenticity of 1960&#8242;s white rock and roll?</p>
<p>If a song moves you, it ought to make little difference if the singer&#8217;s words and the band&#8217;s music come from personal experiences or conviction. Lost in all this discussion about what is &#8220;historical and committed&#8221; is the question: Is it enjoyable? A lot of people seem to think so.</p>
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		<title>By: homer</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/01/against-mumford/comment-page-1/#comment-76541</link>
		<dc:creator>homer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 21:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48688#comment-76541</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why don&#039;t you put together a group, practice, write some songs, and perform in some concerts. Then the rest of us can make up ridiculous reasons to criticize you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t you put together a group, practice, write some songs, and perform in some concerts. Then the rest of us can make up ridiculous reasons to criticize you.</p>
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		<title>By: Mumford And Sons And The New Sincerity &#124; The Penn Ave Post</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/01/against-mumford/comment-page-1/#comment-76540</link>
		<dc:creator>Mumford And Sons And The New Sincerity &#124; The Penn Ave Post</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 21:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48688#comment-76540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] New Sincerity  Posted at 5:45 on October 7, 2012 by Andrew Sullivan   &#160; Matthew Schmitz really does not like the new Mumford and Sons album, Babel: Mumford and Sons are a kind of musical Pinterest. They [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] New Sincerity  Posted at 5:45 on October 7, 2012 by Andrew Sullivan   &#160; Matthew Schmitz really does not like the new Mumford and Sons album, Babel: Mumford and Sons are a kind of musical Pinterest. They [...]</p>
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		<title>By: In Defense of Mumford and Sons &#8220;Babel&#8221; &#171; Notes from a Small Place</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/01/against-mumford/comment-page-1/#comment-76275</link>
		<dc:creator>In Defense of Mumford and Sons &#8220;Babel&#8221; &#171; Notes from a Small Place</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 11:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48688#comment-76275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] gory details here. The best critique of the bunch comes from my fellow Nebraskan Matthew Schmitz at First Things. Mumford and Sons are a kind of musical Pinterest. They “collect” without really linking [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] gory details here. The best critique of the bunch comes from my fellow Nebraskan Matthew Schmitz at First Things. Mumford and Sons are a kind of musical Pinterest. They “collect” without really linking [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Harmon</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/01/against-mumford/comment-page-1/#comment-76249</link>
		<dc:creator>John Harmon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 23:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48688#comment-76249</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I - How do you know that “many conservatives and Christians see the critical savaging of Mumford as another instance of media bias”?  How many conservatives and Christians do you know who hold that opinion?  What sort of research did you undertake to reach that conclusion?

II – You criticize Mumford’s musical stylings because they do not demand a public or existential commitment from listeners. In 2009 you &lt;a href=&quot;http://plumblines.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/top-25-conservative-movie-lists/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;upbraided National Review&lt;/a&gt; for making the mistake of “claiming that while art may be important, the message matters a great deal too” and &lt;a href=&quot;http://plumblines.wordpress.com/2009/02/13/an-alternative-to-irony/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;praised Eric Rohmer&lt;/a&gt; for an artistic treatment of “gender, sex and love free of irony or politics.”  Have your views on artistic expression changed since then, or do you have some other basis for distinguishing your criticism of Mumford from your prior comments?

III - When you listen to Beethoven’s 5th, what sort of public or existential commitments do you find yourself required to make? 

IV - On what grounds do you distinguish the vague religious and historical references in Eliot’s The Wasteland from the vague religious and historical references in Mumford’s lyrics?  Or do you think The Wasteland is a kind of poetic Pinterest?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I &#8211; How do you know that “many conservatives and Christians see the critical savaging of Mumford as another instance of media bias”?  How many conservatives and Christians do you know who hold that opinion?  What sort of research did you undertake to reach that conclusion?</p>
<p>II – You criticize Mumford’s musical stylings because they do not demand a public or existential commitment from listeners. In 2009 you <a href="http://plumblines.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/top-25-conservative-movie-lists/" rel="nofollow">upbraided National Review</a> for making the mistake of “claiming that while art may be important, the message matters a great deal too” and <a href="http://plumblines.wordpress.com/2009/02/13/an-alternative-to-irony/" rel="nofollow">praised Eric Rohmer</a> for an artistic treatment of “gender, sex and love free of irony or politics.”  Have your views on artistic expression changed since then, or do you have some other basis for distinguishing your criticism of Mumford from your prior comments?</p>
<p>III &#8211; When you listen to Beethoven’s 5th, what sort of public or existential commitments do you find yourself required to make? </p>
<p>IV &#8211; On what grounds do you distinguish the vague religious and historical references in Eliot’s The Wasteland from the vague religious and historical references in Mumford’s lyrics?  Or do you think The Wasteland is a kind of poetic Pinterest?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Z</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/01/against-mumford/comment-page-1/#comment-76235</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=48688#comment-76235</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the interest of adding to my substantial analysis above ... from my very limited experience listening to their music, I agree with Chris&#039; point, that Mumford&#039;s use of folk instruments and styles is pretty shallow as a matter of musical form and function (nothing to do with the lyrics). Pop with banjos, to put it bluntly. Not that that makes it terrible. 

I mean, good for them for being a popular and competent band that is decent and educated and properly motivated in many ways. I don&#039;t happen to think that it&#039;s great music, and I think Chris gives good reasons for that judgment. On the other hand, not everything has to be great. Good things are still good even if they aren&#039;t great.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the interest of adding to my substantial analysis above &#8230; from my very limited experience listening to their music, I agree with Chris&#8217; point, that Mumford&#8217;s use of folk instruments and styles is pretty shallow as a matter of musical form and function (nothing to do with the lyrics). Pop with banjos, to put it bluntly. Not that that makes it terrible. </p>
<p>I mean, good for them for being a popular and competent band that is decent and educated and properly motivated in many ways. I don&#8217;t happen to think that it&#8217;s great music, and I think Chris gives good reasons for that judgment. On the other hand, not everything has to be great. Good things are still good even if they aren&#8217;t great.</p>
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