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	<title>Comments on: UPDATED: Holocaust-Denying Bishop Expelled from Traditionalist Society</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/23/holocaust-denying-bishop-removed-from-traditionalist-society/</link>
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		<title>By: Farkel44</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/23/holocaust-denying-bishop-removed-from-traditionalist-society/comment-page-1/#comment-77668</link>
		<dc:creator>Farkel44</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:07:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=49692#comment-77668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is interesting to see the assassination of an individual in real time.  Watch the YouTube video for yourself....find out what he actually said.  See if he denied or did not....  Then ask yourself why he needed to go away....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting to see the assassination of an individual in real time.  Watch the YouTube video for yourself&#8230;.find out what he actually said.  See if he denied or did not&#8230;.  Then ask yourself why he needed to go away&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenneth J. Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/23/holocaust-denying-bishop-removed-from-traditionalist-society/comment-page-1/#comment-77589</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenneth J. Wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 19:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=49692#comment-77589</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alan Aversa -- And Archbishop Müller said of the SSPX, a few weeks ago: &quot;This fraternity is no partner for negotiations for us, because there is no negotiating the faith.&quot;  (As if Vatican II is the beginning and end of &quot;the faith.&quot;)

In the past, the same Archbishop Müller said: &quot;The four bishops of the SSPX should all resign&quot; and &quot;The seminary should be closed and the students should go to seminaries in their home countries - if they are suitable for this purpose.&quot;

Which is why any Vatican-SSPX negotiations that would be restarted cannot involve Archbishop Müller.  Archbishop Di Noia, who is no traditionalist based on the comments you quoted, is still a lot more reasonable.

If unity is the goal, then it is clear who needs to be representing the Vatican for the pope, and who needs to get out the way so negotiations can resume.  Pope Benedict XVI has made it clear he wants negotiations and unity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan Aversa &#8212; And Archbishop Müller said of the SSPX, a few weeks ago: &#8220;This fraternity is no partner for negotiations for us, because there is no negotiating the faith.&#8221;  (As if Vatican II is the beginning and end of &#8220;the faith.&#8221;)</p>
<p>In the past, the same Archbishop Müller said: &#8220;The four bishops of the SSPX should all resign&#8221; and &#8220;The seminary should be closed and the students should go to seminaries in their home countries &#8211; if they are suitable for this purpose.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which is why any Vatican-SSPX negotiations that would be restarted cannot involve Archbishop Müller.  Archbishop Di Noia, who is no traditionalist based on the comments you quoted, is still a lot more reasonable.</p>
<p>If unity is the goal, then it is clear who needs to be representing the Vatican for the pope, and who needs to get out the way so negotiations can resume.  Pope Benedict XVI has made it clear he wants negotiations and unity.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/23/holocaust-denying-bishop-removed-from-traditionalist-society/comment-page-1/#comment-77587</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 19:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=49692#comment-77587</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;catholicgauze&quot; states:

&quot;I find it interesting how those on the extreme right will (justly) denounce progressive Catholics who deny dogma yet cover for extremists who deny a council(!).&quot;

Since it is perfectly clear that Vatican 2 was not a dogmatic council but merely a pastoral one, which by Pope Paul&#039;s own insistence did not proclaim anything dogmatically, it follows that any Catholic in the world can criticize Vatican 2.  It also follows that the SSPX like everyone else is perfectly free to question the troubling statements coming from that woebegone Council while still remaining a loyal Catholic subject to the authority of Christ&#039;s Vicar on earth who is now Benedict XVI.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;catholicgauze&#8221; states:</p>
<p>&#8220;I find it interesting how those on the extreme right will (justly) denounce progressive Catholics who deny dogma yet cover for extremists who deny a council(!).&#8221;</p>
<p>Since it is perfectly clear that Vatican 2 was not a dogmatic council but merely a pastoral one, which by Pope Paul&#8217;s own insistence did not proclaim anything dogmatically, it follows that any Catholic in the world can criticize Vatican 2.  It also follows that the SSPX like everyone else is perfectly free to question the troubling statements coming from that woebegone Council while still remaining a loyal Catholic subject to the authority of Christ&#8217;s Vicar on earth who is now Benedict XVI.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Aversa</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/23/holocaust-denying-bishop-removed-from-traditionalist-society/comment-page-1/#comment-77583</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Aversa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 18:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=49692#comment-77583</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-77562&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kenneth J. Wolfe&lt;/a&gt;:

Abp. Di Noia said:

&quot;Vatican II repudiated anti-Semitism and presented a positive picture of Judaism. John Paul II took us further in recognizing the significance of the Jewish People for Christianity itself. This is a new concept which we know the Traditionalists will not be able to accept immediately. Convincing them will take time, and in this respect we will have to be patient.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-77562" rel="nofollow">Kenneth J. Wolfe</a>:</p>
<p>Abp. Di Noia said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Vatican II repudiated anti-Semitism and presented a positive picture of Judaism. John Paul II took us further in recognizing the significance of the Jewish People for Christianity itself. This is a new concept which we know the Traditionalists will not be able to accept immediately. Convincing them will take time, and in this respect we will have to be patient.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kenneth J. Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/23/holocaust-denying-bishop-removed-from-traditionalist-society/comment-page-1/#comment-77562</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenneth J. Wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 16:12:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=49692#comment-77562</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As long as Archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Müller is in charge of the negotiations, instead of Archbishop Joseph Augustine Di Noia, O.P., there will sadly be little-to-no chance of a Vatican-SSPX agreement.

Both sides could do more -- but with the extreme SSPX opponent Archbishop Müller in this position, it is not likely we will see progress.

Get Archbishop Müller out of the way (hello, Di Noia???) and there is at least a chance talks can start up again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as Archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Müller is in charge of the negotiations, instead of Archbishop Joseph Augustine Di Noia, O.P., there will sadly be little-to-no chance of a Vatican-SSPX agreement.</p>
<p>Both sides could do more &#8212; but with the extreme SSPX opponent Archbishop Müller in this position, it is not likely we will see progress.</p>
<p>Get Archbishop Müller out of the way (hello, Di Noia???) and there is at least a chance talks can start up again.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen M. Barr</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/23/holocaust-denying-bishop-removed-from-traditionalist-society/comment-page-1/#comment-77554</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen M. Barr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=49692#comment-77554</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is somewhat amusing. The SSPX demands more obedience to its leader than it is willing to give the Pope. I suppose that, on good SSPX principles, Williamson could say that despite all appearances he really and truly still is part of the SSPX, because even though he disobeys &quot;Modernist Econe&quot; he is faithful to the &quot;Econe of the Ages&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is somewhat amusing. The SSPX demands more obedience to its leader than it is willing to give the Pope. I suppose that, on good SSPX principles, Williamson could say that despite all appearances he really and truly still is part of the SSPX, because even though he disobeys &#8220;Modernist Econe&#8221; he is faithful to the &#8220;Econe of the Ages&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: John Weiskittel</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/23/holocaust-denying-bishop-removed-from-traditionalist-society/comment-page-1/#comment-77548</link>
		<dc:creator>John Weiskittel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=49692#comment-77548</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Williamson has been increasingly out of step with the rest of the Society...&quot;
..................................................
This remark is grossly inaccurate. In point of fact, two other SSPX bishops were joined by Bp. Williamson back in May in co-writing a letter to the fourth lone Society bishop, Superior General Bernard Fellay (he who ousted Williamson), which was highly critical of Fellay&#039;s suicidal talks with Modernist Rome (&quot;suicidal&quot; in the sense addressed to Bp. Fellay in the bishops&#039; letter: &quot;no practical agreement can be made which will not involve gradually silencing the Society&#039;s critique of the Council and the New Mass.&quot;)

Bp. Williamson was expelled, and not Bp. Bernard Tissier de Mallerais or Bp. Alfoso de Galarreta, solely because he was an easier scapegoat; with the Holocaust albatross hanging round his neck, it was an easy choice. 

Bp. Fellay got rid of him to help in his talks with Modernist Rome, but if anyone thinks that the SSPX is in lockstep when it comes to such &quot;reconciliation&quot; (read capitulation), then that person is hopelessly out of touch.

In reality, the goal of the ouster is to achieve that sort of forced unanimity by squelching any dissenting opinions, ironically, just as the bishops&#039; letter warned would be the result of surrendering to the Vatican II sect. Bp. Fellay is well aware that there are not a few in the Society that strongly disapprove of the direction he&#039;s taking the group, but he hopes this will silence his critics once and for all.

As with all dictators, he holds his opinion to be greater than anyone else&#039;s. In this case, even greater than his three brother bishops.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Williamson has been increasingly out of step with the rest of the Society&#8230;&#8221;<br />
&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..<br />
This remark is grossly inaccurate. In point of fact, two other SSPX bishops were joined by Bp. Williamson back in May in co-writing a letter to the fourth lone Society bishop, Superior General Bernard Fellay (he who ousted Williamson), which was highly critical of Fellay&#8217;s suicidal talks with Modernist Rome (&#8220;suicidal&#8221; in the sense addressed to Bp. Fellay in the bishops&#8217; letter: &#8220;no practical agreement can be made which will not involve gradually silencing the Society&#8217;s critique of the Council and the New Mass.&#8221;)</p>
<p>Bp. Williamson was expelled, and not Bp. Bernard Tissier de Mallerais or Bp. Alfoso de Galarreta, solely because he was an easier scapegoat; with the Holocaust albatross hanging round his neck, it was an easy choice. </p>
<p>Bp. Fellay got rid of him to help in his talks with Modernist Rome, but if anyone thinks that the SSPX is in lockstep when it comes to such &#8220;reconciliation&#8221; (read capitulation), then that person is hopelessly out of touch.</p>
<p>In reality, the goal of the ouster is to achieve that sort of forced unanimity by squelching any dissenting opinions, ironically, just as the bishops&#8217; letter warned would be the result of surrendering to the Vatican II sect. Bp. Fellay is well aware that there are not a few in the Society that strongly disapprove of the direction he&#8217;s taking the group, but he hopes this will silence his critics once and for all.</p>
<p>As with all dictators, he holds his opinion to be greater than anyone else&#8217;s. In this case, even greater than his three brother bishops.</p>
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		<title>By: WEDNESDAY MORNING GOD &#38; CAESAR EDITION &#124; Big Pulpit</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/23/holocaust-denying-bishop-removed-from-traditionalist-society/comment-page-1/#comment-77525</link>
		<dc:creator>WEDNESDAY MORNING GOD &#38; CAESAR EDITION &#124; Big Pulpit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 12:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=49692#comment-77525</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Holocaust-Denying Bishop Removed from Traditionalist Society &#8211; Schmitz, First Thoughts [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Holocaust-Denying Bishop Removed from Traditionalist Society &#8211; Schmitz, First Thoughts [...]</p>
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		<title>By: catholicgauze</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/23/holocaust-denying-bishop-removed-from-traditionalist-society/comment-page-1/#comment-77515</link>
		<dc:creator>catholicgauze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 11:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I find it interesting how those on the extreme right will (justly) denounce progressive Catholics who deny dogma yet cover for extremists who deny a council(!).  

I worry about how many Medjugorje could split off from the Church if Rome denounces it, I also worry about how many Catholics will leave the Church if the SSPX further splits or says no to reunion once and for all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting how those on the extreme right will (justly) denounce progressive Catholics who deny dogma yet cover for extremists who deny a council(!).  </p>
<p>I worry about how many Medjugorje could split off from the Church if Rome denounces it, I also worry about how many Catholics will leave the Church if the SSPX further splits or says no to reunion once and for all.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/10/23/holocaust-denying-bishop-removed-from-traditionalist-society/comment-page-1/#comment-77511</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 10:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[This will definitely not matter to any supposed &quot;reconciliation&quot; which is very much out of the picture anyway as Fellay made clear in his recent remarks in Australia. He stated plainly there will be no deal &quot;in this pontificate&quot;. SSPX will not accept Vatican II, period. More interesting is how many priests will follow Williamson out of the  SSPX.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This will definitely not matter to any supposed &#8220;reconciliation&#8221; which is very much out of the picture anyway as Fellay made clear in his recent remarks in Australia. He stated plainly there will be no deal &#8220;in this pontificate&#8221;. SSPX will not accept Vatican II, period. More interesting is how many priests will follow Williamson out of the  SSPX.</p>
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