Comments on: Problems with the Navy’s Sex Integration Scheme

By: Graham Combs

Graham Combs — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:06:24 +0000

I’m surprised no one above cited Icon Productions’ series CARRIER (yes that’s Mel Gibson’s company). It did suprisingly well on PBS and is worth every minute spent watching it. The captain did not address the specific issue of co-ed crew but he did note how difficult it was to run a multi-billion dollar ship when the average age of your 4,000 or so sailors is 22 years old. But you only had to watch to see what was going on. Couples doing their laundry together, romances that may or may not have ended in marriage. Unfortunately the series focussed more on the two women pilots. Aside from an “insensitive remark” bya male Marine pilot this particular area of co-ed service seemed the least problematic. But the idea that young men and women could serve together without attractions and complicatons is dispelled quickly by the documentary. As for the Marine pilots. Toward the end such a seasoned pilot goes up in turbulent night storm at sea to guide several planes back to the carrier. One piloted by a female Navy pilot. It is true but harrowing drama. All through you see the skills, courage, and daily sacrifices these men AND women make to serve their country. One such ordinary hero is a middle-aged black Command Master Chief who literally walks the decks of the huge ship making sure things get done — including a spic and span ‘head.’ And who it is obvious is just as critical to the mission as any executive officer. And often ridiculed for his service. Another is a female air traffic controller who does her job even as her lawyer is fighting for custody of her children back home.

There is a discussion to be had here. But first I would suggest watching this first-rate documentary. The commander-in-chief might watch it as well. His knowledge would be enhanced and his opinions become better informed.

By: Mike Melendez

Mike Melendez — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:04:30 +0000

@Eli,

The way I used to put it when I was in the Navy: you can’t just call the fire department and step out of the building when you’ve out at sea. The ocean can be very unforgiving, especially during war.

By: Eli M

Eli M — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:17:32 +0000

So why is it that the degradation that used to (and I’m sure still does) take place off-ship is OK while that on-ship is not? Is the off-ship degradation any resulting in LESS spiritual, moral, physical, and psychological harm than that taking place on-ship? This article at the end makes it sound like the off-ship behavior is more acceptable but in my book, its just as harmful.

By: Steven M

Steven M — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 15:07:11 +0000

Also, Israel doesn’t have a blue water navy thats out at sea for as long as the US Navy often is.

By: Mike Melendez

Mike Melendez — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 01:45:43 +0000

David, Read further. The Israelis do not integrate at the level the Navy has attempted.

By: Carson Chittom

Carson Chittom — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 01:20:27 +0000

@David Nickol: I’m no expert on the Israeli military and have no real data, but here’s a guess at answering your question.

1. Since military service is mandatory for nearly all Israeli citizens, perhaps there is a greater sense of being all in it together.

2. Because of #1, most people’s military service is fairly short (3 years for men, generally 2-3 years for women). Perhaps less people wish to get “involved.”

3. Israel is the only nation (according to Wikipedia) to directly assign women to infantry and other combat positions. Certainly in my own (US) military service I encountered male soldiers who felt like female soldiers weren’t “real” soldiers. Assigning women to combat positions would go a long way, in my opinion, towards combating that particular prejudice.

As I say, just a guess.

By: Jeffrey Miller

Jeffrey Miller — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 22:02:31 +0000

Unfortunately it is all too accurate. As a Chief I served on the U.S.S. Eisenhower CVN-69 which was the first carrier to deploy with women. As anybody with any real understanding of human nature will understand the consequences. It did not improve our readiness one bit and degraded it. Women becoming pregnant before a cruise meant we lost that person and their training. Plus it is not like it was only one or two cases of this. Worse though was that many women just were unable to perform the same physical tasks. Supervisors would have to choose somebody else for some jobs.

This was just political correctness and we were not allowed to complain about the problems. The physical requirement tests for women are also reduced for women. Funny that people having to do the same jobs one group has reduced standards for what are already rather laughable Navy PRT standards. There were plenty of double standards galore.

By: David Nickol

David Nickol — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 21:17:30 +0000

How is it that the Israelis can manage these things and we can’t? (Or do they have problems I don’t know about?)

By: Michael Currie

Michael Currie — Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:57:03 +0000

Having been a man all my life and having been in the service in the past and worked in construction for most of my life there is one thing that I have observed, when men and women work together and particularly if there is an imbalance in the genders, either way by the way, there are winners and losers, some guys get the girls and most don’t. Jealousy,resentment, anger and hurt feelings ensue and these do not engender group cohesiveness. The competiveness that developes is not healthy and is in many cases destructive to the people involved, to the people they work with and to any common effort in which they are engaged.