<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Voting for Evil</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/11/05/voting-for-evil/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/11/05/voting-for-evil/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 21 May 2013 18:28:29 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Maureen O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/11/05/voting-for-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-78735</link>
		<dc:creator>Maureen O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2012 07:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=50388#comment-78735</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good, solid comments!  Too often discussions of these topics shed more heat than light -- this one managed to inform.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good, solid comments!  Too often discussions of these topics shed more heat than light &#8212; this one managed to inform.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/11/05/voting-for-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-78352</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 19:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=50388#comment-78352</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TheDuke,

The BBC article here indicates that abortion laws in Europe are actually quite a bit stricter than here in the U.S.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6235557.stm

Notice that in the countries you listed, abortion is generally proscribed after twelve weeks.  In most of the U.S., it is 24 weeks.  Furthermore, contraception is indeed widely available and relatively inexpensive.  It also fully-subsidized for those below the poverty line.  

The fact that secular Europe has stricter abortion laws and lower numbers of abortion does in fact speak volumes, although it probably says exactly the opposite of what you were hoping it would say.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TheDuke,</p>
<p>The BBC article here indicates that abortion laws in Europe are actually quite a bit stricter than here in the U.S.</p>
<p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6235557.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6235557.stm</a></p>
<p>Notice that in the countries you listed, abortion is generally proscribed after twelve weeks.  In most of the U.S., it is 24 weeks.  Furthermore, contraception is indeed widely available and relatively inexpensive.  It also fully-subsidized for those below the poverty line.  </p>
<p>The fact that secular Europe has stricter abortion laws and lower numbers of abortion does in fact speak volumes, although it probably says exactly the opposite of what you were hoping it would say.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael J</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/11/05/voting-for-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-78349</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 18:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=50388#comment-78349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The danger comes, in my opinion, with equating imprudent, miguided, unifommed or simply &#039;ones I disagree with&#039; policies advanced by one candidate or the other with &quot;evil&quot;.  There is a world of difference between something that is simply wrong and something that is evil.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The danger comes, in my opinion, with equating imprudent, miguided, unifommed or simply &#8216;ones I disagree with&#8217; policies advanced by one candidate or the other with &#8220;evil&#8221;.  There is a world of difference between something that is simply wrong and something that is evil.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/11/05/voting-for-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-78320</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 13:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=50388#comment-78320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Something I put up at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.threedonia.com/archives/56244/comment-page-1#comment-509366&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a friends blog&lt;/a&gt;:

Francis Bicknell Carpenter, in &quot;Six Months in the White House with Abraham Lincoln&quot;, published in in 1867, relayed the following exchange:

“No nobler reply ever fell from the lips of a ruler, than that uttered by President Lincoln in response to the clergyman who ventured to say, in his presence, that he hoped “the Lord was on our side.”

” “I am not at all concerned about that,” replied Mr. Lincoln, “for I know that the Lord is always on the side of the right. But it is my constant anxiety and prayer that I and this nation should be on the Lord’s side.” “

I suppose Lincoln could have determined neither side was on God&#039;s side in the crisis he faced, but would the world be better off today if had? I don&#039;t think so. Mark Shea, Mark T. Mitchell, et al can keep sitting things out while they pray for perfection. It won&#039;t do them or their communities a lick of good to refuse to swallow their pride, pick a side, and do what they can in this fallen world. Sitting it out is the one option that pretty much ensures nothing will ever improve.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something I put up at <a href="http://www.threedonia.com/archives/56244/comment-page-1#comment-509366" rel="nofollow">a friends blog</a>:</p>
<p>Francis Bicknell Carpenter, in &#8220;Six Months in the White House with Abraham Lincoln&#8221;, published in in 1867, relayed the following exchange:</p>
<p>“No nobler reply ever fell from the lips of a ruler, than that uttered by President Lincoln in response to the clergyman who ventured to say, in his presence, that he hoped “the Lord was on our side.”</p>
<p>” “I am not at all concerned about that,” replied Mr. Lincoln, “for I know that the Lord is always on the side of the right. But it is my constant anxiety and prayer that I and this nation should be on the Lord’s side.” “</p>
<p>I suppose Lincoln could have determined neither side was on God&#8217;s side in the crisis he faced, but would the world be better off today if had? I don&#8217;t think so. Mark Shea, Mark T. Mitchell, et al can keep sitting things out while they pray for perfection. It won&#8217;t do them or their communities a lick of good to refuse to swallow their pride, pick a side, and do what they can in this fallen world. Sitting it out is the one option that pretty much ensures nothing will ever improve.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joe DeVet</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/11/05/voting-for-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-78315</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe DeVet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 10:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=50388#comment-78315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As the last presidential primary season progressed, it looked as though one would have the awful choice of voting either for the pro-abortion Giuliani or the mega-pro-abortion Hillary or Barack.  I determined that if it came to that, I would withhold my vote in the presidential race.  

But I also had the option of writing letters to the leadership of the Republicans (no sense in either trying with the Democrats!) to say that I would never vote for a pro-abortion Republican.  

Thankfully it didn&#039;t come to that then or now, and I cheerfully cast my vote for the ticket which is pro-life, albeit not perfectly so.  That perfection will have to wait for another day when, God willing, a larger number of Americans&#039; hearts are changed, and minds clarified to recognize that abortion should be forbidden in all circumstances in which murder is (because it is the same thing.)

We have it on good authority that some demons are only cast out through prayer and fasting.  Let us &quot;brace ourselves to our duty.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the last presidential primary season progressed, it looked as though one would have the awful choice of voting either for the pro-abortion Giuliani or the mega-pro-abortion Hillary or Barack.  I determined that if it came to that, I would withhold my vote in the presidential race.  </p>
<p>But I also had the option of writing letters to the leadership of the Republicans (no sense in either trying with the Democrats!) to say that I would never vote for a pro-abortion Republican.  </p>
<p>Thankfully it didn&#8217;t come to that then or now, and I cheerfully cast my vote for the ticket which is pro-life, albeit not perfectly so.  That perfection will have to wait for another day when, God willing, a larger number of Americans&#8217; hearts are changed, and minds clarified to recognize that abortion should be forbidden in all circumstances in which murder is (because it is the same thing.)</p>
<p>We have it on good authority that some demons are only cast out through prayer and fasting.  Let us &#8220;brace ourselves to our duty.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TheDuke</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/11/05/voting-for-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-78300</link>
		<dc:creator>TheDuke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 05:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=50388#comment-78300</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For me, my choice is clear, to vote for a lesser of the 2 evils means to vote for Obama. The best hope to reduce the number of abortions is to support policy that:

-	Reduce the income inequality and allow everyone to have a chance to participate in the economic progress.

-	To make birth control widely accessible.

Looking at Germany, Netherland, Switzerland, etc., these countries have a much more lenient abortion law and yet the abortion rate of these countries is very low compared to America. Also, these countries are much more secular too, and that speaks volume…]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, my choice is clear, to vote for a lesser of the 2 evils means to vote for Obama. The best hope to reduce the number of abortions is to support policy that:</p>
<p>-	Reduce the income inequality and allow everyone to have a chance to participate in the economic progress.</p>
<p>-	To make birth control widely accessible.</p>
<p>Looking at Germany, Netherland, Switzerland, etc., these countries have a much more lenient abortion law and yet the abortion rate of these countries is very low compared to America. Also, these countries are much more secular too, and that speaks volume…</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jeannine</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/11/05/voting-for-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-78292</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeannine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 03:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=50388#comment-78292</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I believe that the last four years have shown that lobbying, activism, writing to one&#039;s congressman, and other non-voting methods, admirable as they may be, are NOT a substitute for voting. Yes, by all means, become politically active! However, the politician who wins the election has power which voters have given to him or to her. The HHS mandate is a problem because of who won the last presidential election. 

I wrote to my senator and asked him to vote against Obamacare and to remember his prolife stance (on which he had campaigned for his office), but strangely enough, his political party meant more to him than my letter: he voted for Obamacare and showed that his supposed prolife commitment was meaningless to him next to his loyalty to the Democrat party. The only impact that I can have on him is to vote for the other guy in this election!

&quot;I won&quot; was the president&#039;s response to the members of Congress who tried to get him to modify his health care bill. Yes, he won, and he has been doing what he wants regardless of the objections of many Americans. The only way to stop him is to vote against him. We are voting for human beings, so they will inevitably be imperfect. But I do think that we have a responsibility as citizens to try to stop politicians who support or, worse yet, actively promote intrinsic evil from being elected--by voting against them. 

I don&#039;t worship politicians, and I don&#039;t put my faith in them. However, I believe that I have a duty to use my vote to try to elect the less evil of them, especially since we now see the amount of injustice that can be done by the more evil of them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that the last four years have shown that lobbying, activism, writing to one&#8217;s congressman, and other non-voting methods, admirable as they may be, are NOT a substitute for voting. Yes, by all means, become politically active! However, the politician who wins the election has power which voters have given to him or to her. The HHS mandate is a problem because of who won the last presidential election. </p>
<p>I wrote to my senator and asked him to vote against Obamacare and to remember his prolife stance (on which he had campaigned for his office), but strangely enough, his political party meant more to him than my letter: he voted for Obamacare and showed that his supposed prolife commitment was meaningless to him next to his loyalty to the Democrat party. The only impact that I can have on him is to vote for the other guy in this election!</p>
<p>&#8220;I won&#8221; was the president&#8217;s response to the members of Congress who tried to get him to modify his health care bill. Yes, he won, and he has been doing what he wants regardless of the objections of many Americans. The only way to stop him is to vote against him. We are voting for human beings, so they will inevitably be imperfect. But I do think that we have a responsibility as citizens to try to stop politicians who support or, worse yet, actively promote intrinsic evil from being elected&#8211;by voting against them. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t worship politicians, and I don&#8217;t put my faith in them. However, I believe that I have a duty to use my vote to try to elect the less evil of them, especially since we now see the amount of injustice that can be done by the more evil of them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ann</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/11/05/voting-for-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-78284</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 00:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=50388#comment-78284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pope John Paul II aimed this passage (Evangelium Vitae, para. 73) about voting for the lesser of two evils in an effort to limit evil at legislators, but I think it pretty clearly would apply to the citizen-voter as well:

&quot;A particular problem of conscience can arise in cases where a legislative vote would be decisive for the passage of a more restrictive law, aimed at limiting the number of authorized abortions, in place of a more permissive law already passed or ready to be voted on. Such cases are not infrequent. It is a fact that while in some parts of the world there continue to be campaigns to introduce laws favouring abortion, often supported by powerful international organizations, in other nations-particularly those which have already experienced the bitter fruits of such permissive legislation-there are growing signs of a rethinking in this matter. In a case like the one just mentioned, when it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law, an elected official, whose absolute personal opposition to procured abortion was well known, could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and public morality. This does not in fact represent an illicit cooperation with an unjust law, but rather a legitimate and proper attempt to limit its evil aspects.&quot;

So, in the current election, we know Romney’s stand is for limiting abortions, while Obama’s is for unrestricted abortions. Not voting for Romney but for some other third-party or write-in candidate would aid Obama, and therefore does nothing to limit evil.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pope John Paul II aimed this passage (Evangelium Vitae, para. 73) about voting for the lesser of two evils in an effort to limit evil at legislators, but I think it pretty clearly would apply to the citizen-voter as well:</p>
<p>&#8220;A particular problem of conscience can arise in cases where a legislative vote would be decisive for the passage of a more restrictive law, aimed at limiting the number of authorized abortions, in place of a more permissive law already passed or ready to be voted on. Such cases are not infrequent. It is a fact that while in some parts of the world there continue to be campaigns to introduce laws favouring abortion, often supported by powerful international organizations, in other nations-particularly those which have already experienced the bitter fruits of such permissive legislation-there are growing signs of a rethinking in this matter. In a case like the one just mentioned, when it is not possible to overturn or completely abrogate a pro-abortion law, an elected official, whose absolute personal opposition to procured abortion was well known, could licitly support proposals aimed at limiting the harm done by such a law and at lessening its negative consequences at the level of general opinion and public morality. This does not in fact represent an illicit cooperation with an unjust law, but rather a legitimate and proper attempt to limit its evil aspects.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, in the current election, we know Romney’s stand is for limiting abortions, while Obama’s is for unrestricted abortions. Not voting for Romney but for some other third-party or write-in candidate would aid Obama, and therefore does nothing to limit evil.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ed Peters</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/11/05/voting-for-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-78281</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Peters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2012 00:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=50388#comment-78281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Several times over the years, I have found both candidates simply beyond the pale of acceptability, and have either left the race blank, or have written in a name. Either way, I slept at night, and did not toss and turn over a compromise too far.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several times over the years, I have found both candidates simply beyond the pale of acceptability, and have either left the race blank, or have written in a name. Either way, I slept at night, and did not toss and turn over a compromise too far.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Parrino, MD</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2012/11/05/voting-for-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-78275</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Parrino, MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2012 22:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=50388#comment-78275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think not voting is a bad option. I believe that you should vote for or against those candidates and measures you are able to  support or oppose. If the only candidates are a Republican and a Democrat who support Abortion, leave that part of the ballot blank or write in a candidate&#039;s name.
Sometimes it is better to make a point by supporting a zoo animal (e.g. the hippo voted mayor of Rio de Janeiro) than to vote for the party&#039;s candidate. Let them know that you are unhappy with the choices.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think not voting is a bad option. I believe that you should vote for or against those candidates and measures you are able to  support or oppose. If the only candidates are a Republican and a Democrat who support Abortion, leave that part of the ballot blank or write in a candidate&#8217;s name.<br />
Sometimes it is better to make a point by supporting a zoo animal (e.g. the hippo voted mayor of Rio de Janeiro) than to vote for the party&#8217;s candidate. Let them know that you are unhappy with the choices.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
