Comments on: England Excludes Hebrew: What Would Milton Think?

By: Sam Haysom

Sam Haysom — Wed, 19 Dec 2012 02:52:20 +0000

Regardless of the declared rationale the two “dead” languages are their to protect the “public schools”. I don’t mind this being a strong supporter of private schools here in the states but you have to understand where this comes from. If Old Etonians had Hebrew whipped into to them then Hebrew would have made the cut.

By: pentamom

pentamom — Tue, 18 Dec 2012 14:43:46 +0000

“I bet there are more Indians in the UK than Chinese. However, this list included no Indian language.”

I doubt the purpose of the list had much to do with learning the native language of people in your own country, nearly all of whom speak good English, as is true of British Indians.

By: David Nickol

David Nickol — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 23:18:58 +0000

Here, according to Wikipedia, are all the languages of the world that are spoken by at least 1% of the population:

Mandarin…..14.1%
Spanish………5.85%
English……….5.52%
Hindi………….4.46%
Arabic………..4.23%
Portuguese….3.08%
Bengali………3.05%
Russian………2.42%
Japanese……1.92%
Punjabi………1.44%
German……..1.39%
Javanese…….1.25%
Wu……………1.20%
Malay/Indonesian…..1.16%
Telugu………..1.15%
Vietnamese ….1.14%
Korean……….1.14%
French………..1.12%
Marathi……….1.10%
Tamil………. ..1.06%

Last on Wikipedia’s list is Konkani, spoken in Goa (State in India), with 7.4 million speakers, or approximately 0.11% of the world’s population. Modern Hebrew is spoken by about 7 million people according to another Wikipedia entry.

By: Mike

Mike — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 21:55:56 +0000

And everyone forgets Bengali — other Indian languages too, but especially Bengali. There are up to 300 million speakers of this language, and a big Bengali speaking community in the UK. I bet there are more Indians in the UK than Chinese. However, this list included no Indian language.

By: Mike

Mike — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 21:51:23 +0000

When I was a student, I took French. Since then I haven’t had too much use of it. In retrospect Bengali and Hebrew would have been more useful. You never know how your life will turn out.

By: David Nickol

David Nickol — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 21:46:22 +0000

A case could certainly be made for ascribing ancient Hebrew a historical significance on par with Latin and ancient Greek.

Patrick,

The case for Latin and ancient Greek was not made on the basis of historical significance. The reason given was that “Latin and ancient Greek give a good grounding in grammar, syntax and vocabulary of a number of modern languages, including English.” This is not true of Classical Hebrew.

Having taken four years of Latin in high school, I am unconvinced that it is helpful for anything later in the academic or real world, but the rationale given by the education minister in the UK is certainly the conventional wisdom about studying Latin and Greek.

It’s interesting that “conservative types” are not saying, “Yes! Latin and Greek!” rather than saying, “What, no Hebrew?”

By: Patrick

Patrick — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 20:05:47 +0000

If the government’s rationale is simply to choose “languages identified by respondents to the consultation as the most popular choices for primary schools,” then what is the point of requiring them? What is the point of having a seven-language list at all?

I would also dispute the choice of Italian (85 M speakers) over, say, Portuguese (215 M) or Russian (155 M) or Hindi (490 M).

A case could certainly be made for ascribing ancient Hebrew a historical significance on par with Latin and ancient Greek.

The whole thing seem arbitrary and pointless. Undoubtedly it was the result of some committee with a newspeak-y name.

By: Gil Student

Gil Student — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 19:27:27 +0000

Jewish schools in the US teach a third language to meet (what I believe are) curricular requirements. I took two years of Spanish in high school in addition to English and Hebrew. And at Yeshiva College I took French in addition to the required Hebrew and English.

By: David Nickol

David Nickol — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 19:04:56 +0000

If we look at the government list as a kind of top seven languages best for helping children get ahead in later education and later life, Modern Hebrew is not in the running, and it is difficult to make a case for Classical Hebrew. I think it would be wonderful if both Classical Hebrew and Greek could be made widely available to students. But for the purposes set out by the government, I don’t think it is accurate to say that Hebrew has been “excluded.” You would have to say all but the seven chose language have been “excluded.” You would have to say that Arabic, Hindi, Urdu, French Creole, Russian, and Japanese have been “excluded.” And Sanskrit.

By: David Nickol

David Nickol — Mon, 17 Dec 2012 18:12:12 +0000

Douglas Johnson,

I am going to echo pentamom. “Since Arabic is not in the mix, I’m not sure this is about that.”

Muslims make up about 5% of the population of the UK. A very large proportion of Muslims name their boys Mohammed, to the point where it becomes one of the most popular, and in some years the most popular, boy’s name. Is there something wrong with that?