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	<title>Comments on: Justifying Paternalism</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/justifying-paternalism/</link>
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		<title>By: Michael PS</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/justifying-paternalism/comment-page-1/#comment-91554</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 10:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58115#comment-91554</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Andrew is right.

It was a fundamental principle of the Enlightenment that the nature of the human person can be adequately described without mention of social relationships.  A person&#039;s relations with others, even if important, are not essential and describe nothing that is, strictly speaking, necessary to one’s being what one is.  This principle underlies all their talk about the “state of nature” and the “social contract,” and from it is derived the notion that the only obligations are those voluntarily assumed.

This was later summed up by Bentham, for whom the idea of &quot;relation&quot; is but a &quot;fictitious entity,” though necessary for &#039;convenience of discourse.’  And, more specifically, he remarks that &quot;the community is a fictitious body,&quot; and it is but &quot;the sum of the interests of the several members who compose it.”]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew is right.</p>
<p>It was a fundamental principle of the Enlightenment that the nature of the human person can be adequately described without mention of social relationships.  A person&#8217;s relations with others, even if important, are not essential and describe nothing that is, strictly speaking, necessary to one’s being what one is.  This principle underlies all their talk about the “state of nature” and the “social contract,” and from it is derived the notion that the only obligations are those voluntarily assumed.</p>
<p>This was later summed up by Bentham, for whom the idea of &#8220;relation&#8221; is but a &#8220;fictitious entity,” though necessary for &#8216;convenience of discourse.’  And, more specifically, he remarks that &#8220;the community is a fictitious body,&#8221; and it is but &#8220;the sum of the interests of the several members who compose it.”</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/justifying-paternalism/comment-page-1/#comment-91525</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 02:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58115#comment-91525</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Someone should have paternally coerced her into not publishing that book.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone should have paternally coerced her into not publishing that book.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/justifying-paternalism/comment-page-1/#comment-91485</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 21:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58115#comment-91485</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[*meant to write&quot; familial/social disintegration&quot; in the last sentence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*meant to write&#8221; familial/social disintegration&#8221; in the last sentence.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Deco</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/justifying-paternalism/comment-page-1/#comment-91484</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Deco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 21:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58115#comment-91484</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://www.amazon.com/Against-Autonomy-Justifying-Coercive-Paternalism/product-reviews/1107024846/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&amp;filterBy=addOneStar&amp;showViewpoints=0

Some amusing reviews of this woman&#039;s work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Against-Autonomy-Justifying-Coercive-Paternalism/product-reviews/1107024846/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&#038;filterBy=addOneStar&#038;showViewpoints=0" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Against-Autonomy-Justifying-Coercive-Paternalism/product-reviews/1107024846/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&#038;filterBy=addOneStar&#038;showViewpoints=0</a></p>
<p>Some amusing reviews of this woman&#8217;s work.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/justifying-paternalism/comment-page-1/#comment-91476</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58115#comment-91476</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;[Conly]&quot; responds that autonomy is not valuable enough to offset what we lose by leaving people to their own autonomous choices.&#039; &quot;
The paradoxical irony concerning Conly&#039;s argument is that State-paternalism always leads to further autonomy and a drying of human energies. 

Libertarianism is an empty harbor lacking an answer to State-paternalism--both ideologies end up in the same place because they share an autonomous-ontology.  Adherents to State-voluntarism view the State as the source and arbiter of human relations.  Thus, while adherents to State-voluntarism may value &quot;community,&quot; they see community and solidarity as synonymous with bureaucratic expansion.  Libertarians manly view any human relation or community as an intrusive threat and a possible gateway to Statism.  Ontologically, both ideologies view the human person as naturally empty of any relations—to God, others and the natural world--and thus empty of any naturally given responsibility to God, others or the natural world.  

As R.R. Reno often notes, the State-centric view of morality is an esoteric morality of &quot;healthy choices.&quot;  Thus, State-voluntarist ethics are essentially bourgeois--centered on &quot;success,&quot; sentimental notions of altruism and &quot;service,&quot; and &quot;open&quot; to accommodate any deconstruction of morality.  In effect, bourgeois ethics are a reduction of morality and human work that has proved as destructive as any outright deconstructionist ideology.   Therefore, neither is conservatism--rooted in an essentially bourgeoisie ethic that shares Libertarianism’s and Statism’s autonomous ontological roots--a substantial answer to State-voluntarism.  Conservatism has all but accommodated no-fault divorce which was a foot in the door that lead to other deconstructions of marriage and the familial/social integration that State-paternalism only exacerbates.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;[Conly]&#8221; responds that autonomy is not valuable enough to offset what we lose by leaving people to their own autonomous choices.&#8217; &#8221;<br />
The paradoxical irony concerning Conly&#8217;s argument is that State-paternalism always leads to further autonomy and a drying of human energies. </p>
<p>Libertarianism is an empty harbor lacking an answer to State-paternalism&#8211;both ideologies end up in the same place because they share an autonomous-ontology.  Adherents to State-voluntarism view the State as the source and arbiter of human relations.  Thus, while adherents to State-voluntarism may value &#8220;community,&#8221; they see community and solidarity as synonymous with bureaucratic expansion.  Libertarians manly view any human relation or community as an intrusive threat and a possible gateway to Statism.  Ontologically, both ideologies view the human person as naturally empty of any relations—to God, others and the natural world&#8211;and thus empty of any naturally given responsibility to God, others or the natural world.  </p>
<p>As R.R. Reno often notes, the State-centric view of morality is an esoteric morality of &#8220;healthy choices.&#8221;  Thus, State-voluntarist ethics are essentially bourgeois&#8211;centered on &#8220;success,&#8221; sentimental notions of altruism and &#8220;service,&#8221; and &#8220;open&#8221; to accommodate any deconstruction of morality.  In effect, bourgeois ethics are a reduction of morality and human work that has proved as destructive as any outright deconstructionist ideology.   Therefore, neither is conservatism&#8211;rooted in an essentially bourgeoisie ethic that shares Libertarianism’s and Statism’s autonomous ontological roots&#8211;a substantial answer to State-voluntarism.  Conservatism has all but accommodated no-fault divorce which was a foot in the door that lead to other deconstructions of marriage and the familial/social integration that State-paternalism only exacerbates.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/justifying-paternalism/comment-page-1/#comment-91466</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the article. For info on people using voluntary Libertarian tools on similar and other issues worldwide, please see the non-partisan Libertarian International Organization @ http://www.Libertarian-International.org/ ....


Too fat, in debt, few savings etc. are today the result of coercive and underhanded government policies that promoted sugary carbohydrates, misdirected investment with inflation, and penalize savings. 

So the solution is...more of them?!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the article. For info on people using voluntary Libertarian tools on similar and other issues worldwide, please see the non-partisan Libertarian International Organization @ <a href="http://www.Libertarian-International.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.Libertarian-International.org/</a> &#8230;.</p>
<p>Too fat, in debt, few savings etc. are today the result of coercive and underhanded government policies that promoted sugary carbohydrates, misdirected investment with inflation, and penalize savings. </p>
<p>So the solution is&#8230;more of them?!</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander S. Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/justifying-paternalism/comment-page-1/#comment-91463</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander S. Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58115#comment-91463</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And the inner contradictions and logic of liberal theory turns on itself! I am in awe. This must needs be saved for posterity. &quot;Young ones, this is when some of us starting to realize that our foundational philosophies were quite mad.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the inner contradictions and logic of liberal theory turns on itself! I am in awe. This must needs be saved for posterity. &#8220;Young ones, this is when some of us starting to realize that our foundational philosophies were quite mad.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael PS</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/justifying-paternalism/comment-page-1/#comment-91461</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58115#comment-91461</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Shades of Rousseau – “whoever refuses to obey the general will shall be compelled to do so by the whole body.  This means nothing less than that he will be forced to be free; [« ce qui ne signifie autre chose sinon qu&#039;on le forcera d&#039;être libre »] for this is the condition which, by giving each citizen to his country, secures him against all personal dependence.”

If, like Rousseau, one believes that freedom consists in a people obeying laws of their own making and magistrates of their own choosing, so that government action is the consummated result of the citizens’ own organized wishes, this has a sort of remorseless logic about it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shades of Rousseau – “whoever refuses to obey the general will shall be compelled to do so by the whole body.  This means nothing less than that he will be forced to be free; [« ce qui ne signifie autre chose sinon qu'on le forcera d'être libre »] for this is the condition which, by giving each citizen to his country, secures him against all personal dependence.”</p>
<p>If, like Rousseau, one believes that freedom consists in a people obeying laws of their own making and magistrates of their own choosing, so that government action is the consummated result of the citizens’ own organized wishes, this has a sort of remorseless logic about it.</p>
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