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	<title>Comments on: Rod Dreher on the Sex Scandals</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/rod-dreher-on-the-sex-scandals/</link>
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		<title>By: Pauli67</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/rod-dreher-on-the-sex-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-91650</link>
		<dc:creator>Pauli67</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 04:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58215#comment-91650</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[CK, one of the interesting thing about my friend&#039;s case is that the beginning of his investigation went forward before *any* allegation of sex abuse had occurred. The accusing parishioners--who had a personal beef with him--got him removed on technicalities under the original, unadjusted &quot;zero tolerance&quot; policy. One accusation was that he served wine at a parish dinner where there were minors present. The other was that he grabbed an altar boy&#039;s shoulder in the sacristy who was goofing off before Mass rather roughly and scolded him. (Yeah, you guessed it; kid was the son of one of the accusers.)

THEN after he was put on &quot;administrative leave&quot; lo, and behold! Someone came forward and &quot;remembered&quot; that Father had sexually abused them 30 or 40 years before. So then, voila, the case became a sex abuse case. It never went to trial because it smelled so bad to the judge.

But the weak-kneed &lt;a href=&quot;http://old.usccb.org/comm/archives/2006/06-068.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bishop&lt;/a&gt; left him out to dry rather than try to get justice for him.There were protestants outrage because they knew he was a righteous man. He was set up, then exiled. There is no evidence against him any more than there was evidence against Cardinal Bernardin.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CK, one of the interesting thing about my friend&#8217;s case is that the beginning of his investigation went forward before *any* allegation of sex abuse had occurred. The accusing parishioners&#8211;who had a personal beef with him&#8211;got him removed on technicalities under the original, unadjusted &#8220;zero tolerance&#8221; policy. One accusation was that he served wine at a parish dinner where there were minors present. The other was that he grabbed an altar boy&#8217;s shoulder in the sacristy who was goofing off before Mass rather roughly and scolded him. (Yeah, you guessed it; kid was the son of one of the accusers.)</p>
<p>THEN after he was put on &#8220;administrative leave&#8221; lo, and behold! Someone came forward and &#8220;remembered&#8221; that Father had sexually abused them 30 or 40 years before. So then, voila, the case became a sex abuse case. It never went to trial because it smelled so bad to the judge.</p>
<p>But the weak-kneed <a href="http://old.usccb.org/comm/archives/2006/06-068.shtml" rel="nofollow">bishop</a> left him out to dry rather than try to get justice for him.There were protestants outrage because they knew he was a righteous man. He was set up, then exiled. There is no evidence against him any more than there was evidence against Cardinal Bernardin.</p>
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		<title>By: Inkstained</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/rod-dreher-on-the-sex-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-91624</link>
		<dc:creator>Inkstained</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58215#comment-91624</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One day, Rod will notice the abuse in other faiths. 

That will be a horrible, horrible day for him.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One day, Rod will notice the abuse in other faiths. </p>
<p>That will be a horrible, horrible day for him.</p>
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		<title>By: A Reader</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/rod-dreher-on-the-sex-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-91610</link>
		<dc:creator>A Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58215#comment-91610</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re:  Comment  by cermak rd:  

Please be assured that repentant sinners do not think of their transgressions as &quot;fun&quot;.  

Bitter regret and deep sorrow plus a sense of shame and humiliation are actually more common.  

Submitting to &quot;ablatio&quot; requires the sculptor&#039;s tools; it is painful.  The &quot;refiner&#039;s fire&quot; purifies as fire does.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  Comment  by cermak rd:  </p>
<p>Please be assured that repentant sinners do not think of their transgressions as &#8220;fun&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Bitter regret and deep sorrow plus a sense of shame and humiliation are actually more common.  </p>
<p>Submitting to &#8220;ablatio&#8221; requires the sculptor&#8217;s tools; it is painful.  The &#8220;refiner&#8217;s fire&#8221; purifies as fire does.</p>
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		<title>By: gjr</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/rod-dreher-on-the-sex-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-91605</link>
		<dc:creator>gjr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58215#comment-91605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It may be hypocrisy for a man to preach against what he himself currently practices. But to preach now against what he formerly practiced (but does no more) may be a sign of conversion rather than hypocrisy.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may be hypocrisy for a man to preach against what he himself currently practices. But to preach now against what he formerly practiced (but does no more) may be a sign of conversion rather than hypocrisy.</p>
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		<title>By: CK</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/rod-dreher-on-the-sex-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-91603</link>
		<dc:creator>CK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58215#comment-91603</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;William, that’s a good point, and thank you for it. I have a priest friend who was accused, removed immediately from ministry and never convicted.  What’s more, he was cleared by the county child services and by some state review board of any wrong-doing. Nevertheless he was never restored by the diocese to ministry.&quot;

&quot;The world must construe according to its wits.
This court must construe according to the law.&quot; - Robert Bolt&#039;s A Man for All Seasons.

A credible accusation may still fail to find proof under the law.  The standards for conviction under the human law, at least in the US, are high.  Although one is not proved to be guilty under the human law, it does not follow that prudential judgment should be foreclosed determine whether one should continue to be employed in a public ministry.  Such accusations may have been credible, whether proven, and as such the one who has care for the ministry of the diocese must exercise prudence.

Thankfully, Catholics are not bound merely by man&#039;s laws to inform their judgment.  We are free to be &quot;wise as serpents and innocent as doves.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;William, that’s a good point, and thank you for it. I have a priest friend who was accused, removed immediately from ministry and never convicted.  What’s more, he was cleared by the county child services and by some state review board of any wrong-doing. Nevertheless he was never restored by the diocese to ministry.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The world must construe according to its wits.<br />
This court must construe according to the law.&#8221; &#8211; Robert Bolt&#8217;s A Man for All Seasons.</p>
<p>A credible accusation may still fail to find proof under the law.  The standards for conviction under the human law, at least in the US, are high.  Although one is not proved to be guilty under the human law, it does not follow that prudential judgment should be foreclosed determine whether one should continue to be employed in a public ministry.  Such accusations may have been credible, whether proven, and as such the one who has care for the ministry of the diocese must exercise prudence.</p>
<p>Thankfully, Catholics are not bound merely by man&#8217;s laws to inform their judgment.  We are free to be &#8220;wise as serpents and innocent as doves.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: kt</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/rod-dreher-on-the-sex-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-91602</link>
		<dc:creator>kt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 18:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58215#comment-91602</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[CK, I find all three of your reasons for &quot;anomic horror&quot; less than persuasive (indeed you yourself contradict reason #2 in the very same sentence).  It appears indulging in a little &quot;anomic horror&quot; serves some purpose for you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CK, I find all three of your reasons for &#8220;anomic horror&#8221; less than persuasive (indeed you yourself contradict reason #2 in the very same sentence).  It appears indulging in a little &#8220;anomic horror&#8221; serves some purpose for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Pauli67</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/rod-dreher-on-the-sex-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-91592</link>
		<dc:creator>Pauli67</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 17:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58215#comment-91592</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[William, that&#039;s a good point, and thank you for it. I have a priest friend who was accused, removed immediately from ministry and never convicted. What&#039;s more, he was cleared by the county child services and by some state review board of any wrong-doing. Nevertheless he was never restored by the diocese to ministry. To be accused of this is to be branded, and ex-Catholics like Rod Dreher are more than ready to do the branding, either wittingly or unwittingly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William, that&#8217;s a good point, and thank you for it. I have a priest friend who was accused, removed immediately from ministry and never convicted. What&#8217;s more, he was cleared by the county child services and by some state review board of any wrong-doing. Nevertheless he was never restored by the diocese to ministry. To be accused of this is to be branded, and ex-Catholics like Rod Dreher are more than ready to do the branding, either wittingly or unwittingly.</p>
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		<title>By: cermak_rd</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/rod-dreher-on-the-sex-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-91588</link>
		<dc:creator>cermak_rd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58215#comment-91588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually, even if one has one&#039;s sinning in the past and now proclaims that it was sinful and wrong, I would consider it hypocritical. After all, you&#039;ve had your fun, but now you would seek to stop others from having fun. 

It&#039;s how I feel about a lot of post-abortive women who become pro-lifers after they marry and get on with their lives. Oh, I see, you got the corrective you needed to have the life you have now, but now you want to keep others from getting that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, even if one has one&#8217;s sinning in the past and now proclaims that it was sinful and wrong, I would consider it hypocritical. After all, you&#8217;ve had your fun, but now you would seek to stop others from having fun. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s how I feel about a lot of post-abortive women who become pro-lifers after they marry and get on with their lives. Oh, I see, you got the corrective you needed to have the life you have now, but now you want to keep others from getting that.</p>
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		<title>By: William L.B.W.M. Harnist</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/rod-dreher-on-the-sex-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-91584</link>
		<dc:creator>William L.B.W.M. Harnist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58215#comment-91584</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why don&#039;t we all take a few deep breaths, count to, oh let&#039;s say, 100 a few times, and try to remember that the man has been &quot;ACCUSED,&quot; of these behaviors, not &quot;CONVICTED.&quot; 

Do we all feel better now?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t we all take a few deep breaths, count to, oh let&#8217;s say, 100 a few times, and try to remember that the man has been &#8220;ACCUSED,&#8221; of these behaviors, not &#8220;CONVICTED.&#8221; </p>
<p>Do we all feel better now?</p>
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		<title>By: CK</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/rod-dreher-on-the-sex-scandals/comment-page-1/#comment-91583</link>
		<dc:creator>CK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 16:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58215#comment-91583</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Cardinal O’Brien’s alleged conduct is rather more like professors pressuring their graduate students to sleep with them than molesting pubescent altar boys. It’s something to be censored and punished, but surely that fact that some men do these sorts of things doesn’t throw a normal person into a state of anomic horror.&quot;

This is a ridiculous analogy and a ridiculous moral calculus that deserves outright condemnation, &quot;anomic horror,&quot; and not &quot;mild exasperation.&quot;  There are a number of reasons the analogy is ridiculous.  One, seminarians are not mere grad students.  Two, seminarians are men, whereas the grad students in the analogous situations involve women being pressured into sex by male superiors (also worthy of &quot;anomic horror&quot; and swift retribution).  Three, this situation is directly destructive of the faith, whereas the grad student scenario is not likely the case (often a state U problem for non-religious subjects).  

There are a number of reasons the moral calculus is ridiculous.  Begining with the anthropology of the normal person, we would expect that person to be upset and rightfully angry to find out that professors or Cardinals were abusing their authorities to elicit sex from their inferiors.  If it&#039;s against our daughters or against our sons in seminary, swift retribution and condemnation are necessary, and perhaps it&#039;s time for a return of certain public penitential acts reserved for wicked, abusive authorities.  

As for the Lord Himself, although he is forgiving, he has shown us a glimpse of his righteous anger, especially against the &quot;brood of vipers&quot; and &quot;wolves&quot; who watch over His sheep.  Let&#039;s not forget that the command to forgive does not eliminate righteous anger, nor does the Lamb consume the Lion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Cardinal O’Brien’s alleged conduct is rather more like professors pressuring their graduate students to sleep with them than molesting pubescent altar boys. It’s something to be censored and punished, but surely that fact that some men do these sorts of things doesn’t throw a normal person into a state of anomic horror.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a ridiculous analogy and a ridiculous moral calculus that deserves outright condemnation, &#8220;anomic horror,&#8221; and not &#8220;mild exasperation.&#8221;  There are a number of reasons the analogy is ridiculous.  One, seminarians are not mere grad students.  Two, seminarians are men, whereas the grad students in the analogous situations involve women being pressured into sex by male superiors (also worthy of &#8220;anomic horror&#8221; and swift retribution).  Three, this situation is directly destructive of the faith, whereas the grad student scenario is not likely the case (often a state U problem for non-religious subjects).  </p>
<p>There are a number of reasons the moral calculus is ridiculous.  Begining with the anthropology of the normal person, we would expect that person to be upset and rightfully angry to find out that professors or Cardinals were abusing their authorities to elicit sex from their inferiors.  If it&#8217;s against our daughters or against our sons in seminary, swift retribution and condemnation are necessary, and perhaps it&#8217;s time for a return of certain public penitential acts reserved for wicked, abusive authorities.  </p>
<p>As for the Lord Himself, although he is forgiving, he has shown us a glimpse of his righteous anger, especially against the &#8220;brood of vipers&#8221; and &#8220;wolves&#8221; who watch over His sheep.  Let&#8217;s not forget that the command to forgive does not eliminate righteous anger, nor does the Lamb consume the Lion.</p>
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