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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;We Are All Sedevacantists Now&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/we-are-all-sedevacantists-now/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 02:50:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/we-are-all-sedevacantists-now/comment-page-1/#comment-91543</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nickol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 06:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58079#comment-91543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I am not sure why it is your apparent position that I have to take this pair (or Joseph Bottum) terribly seriously. &lt;/i&gt;

Art Deco,

Apologies for dragging you into it, but my point was that you and I were both saying roughly the same thing—ignore them—in different ways. I was mystified that you got to say it and I didn&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I am not sure why it is your apparent position that I have to take this pair (or Joseph Bottum) terribly seriously. </i></p>
<p>Art Deco,</p>
<p>Apologies for dragging you into it, but my point was that you and I were both saying roughly the same thing—ignore them—in different ways. I was mystified that you got to say it and I didn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: harry</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/we-are-all-sedevacantists-now/comment-page-1/#comment-91488</link>
		<dc:creator>harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 21:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58079#comment-91488</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;The Church, in all her wisdom, has allowed for resignation by the Pope canonically ...&lt;/i&gt;
-- Joseph Shaw&lt;i&gt;

... the Code of Canon Law makes provision for a pope to renounce the Chair of Peter.&lt;/i&gt;
-- Mark Connolly&lt;/blockquote&gt;The Pope has the authority to change Canon Law or make an exception to it if he so desires, so even if Canon Law were silent on the matter, or even if it explicitly did not allow for the pope to resign, the Pope could still resign:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Can. 332 §1. The Roman Pontiff obtains &lt;b&gt;full and supreme power in the Church&lt;/b&gt; by his acceptance of legitimate election together with episcopal consecration. Therefore, a person elected to the supreme pontificate who is marked with episcopal character obtains this power from the moment of acceptance. If the person elected lacks episcopal character, however, he is to be ordained a bishop immediately.

§2. If it happens that the Roman Pontiff resigns his office, it is required for validity that the resignation is made freely and properly manifested but not that it is accepted by anyone.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>The Church, in all her wisdom, has allowed for resignation by the Pope canonically &#8230;</i><br />
&#8211; Joseph Shaw<i></p>
<p>&#8230; the Code of Canon Law makes provision for a pope to renounce the Chair of Peter.</i><br />
&#8211; Mark Connolly</p></blockquote>
<p>The Pope has the authority to change Canon Law or make an exception to it if he so desires, so even if Canon Law were silent on the matter, or even if it explicitly did not allow for the pope to resign, the Pope could still resign:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>Can. 332 §1. The Roman Pontiff obtains <b>full and supreme power in the Church</b> by his acceptance of legitimate election together with episcopal consecration. Therefore, a person elected to the supreme pontificate who is marked with episcopal character obtains this power from the moment of acceptance. If the person elected lacks episcopal character, however, he is to be ordained a bishop immediately.</p>
<p>§2. If it happens that the Roman Pontiff resigns his office, it is required for validity that the resignation is made freely and properly manifested but not that it is accepted by anyone.</i></p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Art Deco</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/we-are-all-sedevacantists-now/comment-page-1/#comment-91487</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Deco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 21:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58079#comment-91487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If it makes you feel better, David, about half my comments are deleted by the moderators.  It makes no sense.

I am not sure why it is your apparent position that I have to take this pair (or Joseph Bottum) terribly seriously.  It is unusual for a Pope to abdicate, but it is in accord with canon law and hundreds of bishops retire every year.  The Eastern Catholic Patriarchs retire; do Messrs. Dulau and Steffens pen a commentary of this nature each time that happens?  It seems we could regard the abdication of the Patriarch of the West every 600 years or so with some equanimity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it makes you feel better, David, about half my comments are deleted by the moderators.  It makes no sense.</p>
<p>I am not sure why it is your apparent position that I have to take this pair (or Joseph Bottum) terribly seriously.  It is unusual for a Pope to abdicate, but it is in accord with canon law and hundreds of bishops retire every year.  The Eastern Catholic Patriarchs retire; do Messrs. Dulau and Steffens pen a commentary of this nature each time that happens?  It seems we could regard the abdication of the Patriarch of the West every 600 years or so with some equanimity.</p>
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		<title>By: Louis</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/we-are-all-sedevacantists-now/comment-page-1/#comment-91479</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 20:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58079#comment-91479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So what should be the &quot;natural&quot; title of Joseph Ratzinger on February 28, 20:00 local time? &quot;Most Reverend Joseph Ratzinger, Bishop of Rome, Emeritus&quot;?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what should be the &#8220;natural&#8221; title of Joseph Ratzinger on February 28, 20:00 local time? &#8220;Most Reverend Joseph Ratzinger, Bishop of Rome, Emeritus&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: David Nickol</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/we-are-all-sedevacantists-now/comment-page-1/#comment-91471</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nickol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 19:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58079#comment-91471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s something I don&#039;t understand.

Art Deco can say, &quot;There are people in this world who are professional complainers. Ignore them.&quot;

But twice my comment along the following lines has failed to pass moderation: &quot;It arrogant of Pierre Dulau and Martin Steffens to believe they know better than Benedict XVI what a pope ought to do.&quot;

Perhaps if I elaborate.  Dulau and Steffens say,

&lt;blockquote&gt;What is the point of speaking of the need of having at the helm of the Church one who is in full possession of his powers? A person who can say this demonstrates by this very fact that he is in full possession of his own means and that, unless he takes medical predictions as oracles, he still enjoys full use of his own self.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is an incredible &quot;catch-22.&quot; Any pope who can make the decision to resign because he is not &quot;in full possession of his powers&quot; proves, by that very reason, that he is in full possession of his powers. Surely the papacy demands more than being able to make a decision. We have this regarding &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=17092&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Benedict&#039;s health:&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Peter Seewald, a German journalist who has collaborated with Pope Benedict XVI on book-length interviews, has said that the Pontiff’s health is worsening rapidly.

Seewald told the German magazine Focus that when he met privately with the Pontiff several weeks ago, he found him exhausted. The Pope is losing his hearing, Seewald says, and appears to be blind in one eye. He also said that the Pope has lost a great deal of weight, and new sets of vestments have been needed to fit his thin frame.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s something I don&#8217;t understand.</p>
<p>Art Deco can say, &#8220;There are people in this world who are professional complainers. Ignore them.&#8221;</p>
<p>But twice my comment along the following lines has failed to pass moderation: &#8220;It arrogant of Pierre Dulau and Martin Steffens to believe they know better than Benedict XVI what a pope ought to do.&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps if I elaborate.  Dulau and Steffens say,</p>
<blockquote><p>What is the point of speaking of the need of having at the helm of the Church one who is in full possession of his powers? A person who can say this demonstrates by this very fact that he is in full possession of his own means and that, unless he takes medical predictions as oracles, he still enjoys full use of his own self.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is an incredible &#8220;catch-22.&#8221; Any pope who can make the decision to resign because he is not &#8220;in full possession of his powers&#8221; proves, by that very reason, that he is in full possession of his powers. Surely the papacy demands more than being able to make a decision. We have this regarding <a href="http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=17092" rel="nofollow">Benedict&#8217;s health:</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Peter Seewald, a German journalist who has collaborated with Pope Benedict XVI on book-length interviews, has said that the Pontiff’s health is worsening rapidly.</p>
<p>Seewald told the German magazine Focus that when he met privately with the Pontiff several weeks ago, he found him exhausted. The Pope is losing his hearing, Seewald says, and appears to be blind in one eye. He also said that the Pope has lost a great deal of weight, and new sets of vestments have been needed to fit his thin frame.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Michael PS</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/we-are-all-sedevacantists-now/comment-page-1/#comment-91462</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael PS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58079#comment-91462</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[William Tighe is right

If memory serves, Celestine V was appointed Cardinal bishop of Ostia, the titular see normally conferred on the Dean of the Sacred College.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William Tighe is right</p>
<p>If memory serves, Celestine V was appointed Cardinal bishop of Ostia, the titular see normally conferred on the Dean of the Sacred College.</p>
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		<title>By: William Tighe</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/we-are-all-sedevacantists-now/comment-page-1/#comment-91458</link>
		<dc:creator>William Tighe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 17:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58079#comment-91458</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;He remains a Bishop and Cardinal and will enter a life of prayer for the Church.&quot;

He does not &quot;remain a Cardinal,&quot; as he ceased to be one when he was elected Pope, and he would have to be reappointed to the college by his papal successor.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He remains a Bishop and Cardinal and will enter a life of prayer for the Church.&#8221;</p>
<p>He does not &#8220;remain a Cardinal,&#8221; as he ceased to be one when he was elected Pope, and he would have to be reappointed to the college by his papal successor.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Deco</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/we-are-all-sedevacantists-now/comment-page-1/#comment-91446</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Deco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 15:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58079#comment-91446</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are people in this world who are professional complainers.  Ignore them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are people in this world who are professional complainers.  Ignore them.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Connolly</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/we-are-all-sedevacantists-now/comment-page-1/#comment-91440</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Connolly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 13:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58079#comment-91440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A lot of presumption is presented by these philosophers that fails to take into account a few realities. One, the Code of Canon Law makes provision for a pope to renounce the Chair of Peter. This means that there is nothing about being Pope that juridically requires a pope to die in order to leave the Seat empty. Two, the nature of the papacy means that such a decision can only be unilateral - this is a consequence of the position, not some act of arrogance. Three, calling 85 years of self-sacrifice &quot;joining the global movement of non-commitment&quot; by simply recognizing that he was no longer equal to the task is simply ignoring the facts of this man&#039;s life. Lastly, Pope Benedict has not abandoned us. He remains a Bishop and Cardinal and will enter a life of prayer for the Church. If all those lamenting his renouncement would stop to think what that really means, or, if perhaps, people actually believed that prayer is efficacious, then we would welcome this focus on the part of our Pope.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of presumption is presented by these philosophers that fails to take into account a few realities. One, the Code of Canon Law makes provision for a pope to renounce the Chair of Peter. This means that there is nothing about being Pope that juridically requires a pope to die in order to leave the Seat empty. Two, the nature of the papacy means that such a decision can only be unilateral &#8211; this is a consequence of the position, not some act of arrogance. Three, calling 85 years of self-sacrifice &#8220;joining the global movement of non-commitment&#8221; by simply recognizing that he was no longer equal to the task is simply ignoring the facts of this man&#8217;s life. Lastly, Pope Benedict has not abandoned us. He remains a Bishop and Cardinal and will enter a life of prayer for the Church. If all those lamenting his renouncement would stop to think what that really means, or, if perhaps, people actually believed that prayer is efficacious, then we would welcome this focus on the part of our Pope.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/02/25/we-are-all-sedevacantists-now/comment-page-1/#comment-91428</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2013 07:30:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/?p=58079#comment-91428</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Church, in all her wisdom, has allowed for resignation by the Pope canonically (which contradicts the second paragraph&#039;s &quot;till death&quot; exposition). The Church&#039;s law is in harmony with all her other constituent parts and headed by our Supreme Pastor, Jesus Christ. It seems that the article fails to take account of this by charitably accepting the leadership of the Holy Father in his exercise of this canonical allowance; I follow the Pope no matter what...unless he resigns! I think the article would serve a better purpose by simply positing the emotional loss of such a great man from the Papacy, instead of the supposed mala fides.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Church, in all her wisdom, has allowed for resignation by the Pope canonically (which contradicts the second paragraph&#8217;s &#8220;till death&#8221; exposition). The Church&#8217;s law is in harmony with all her other constituent parts and headed by our Supreme Pastor, Jesus Christ. It seems that the article fails to take account of this by charitably accepting the leadership of the Holy Father in his exercise of this canonical allowance; I follow the Pope no matter what&#8230;unless he resigns! I think the article would serve a better purpose by simply positing the emotional loss of such a great man from the Papacy, instead of the supposed mala fides.</p>
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