Comments on: The Mormon Menace

By: Van Dyke on Problems with the Christian Nation Question:

Van Dyke on Problems with the Christian Nation Question: — Mon, 22 Nov 2010 21:10:14 +0000

[...] And as they ask today of a sect that followed after the Second Great Awakening in the 1820s, Are Mormons Christian? [...]

By: Bill Lee (Pa Pa)

Bill Lee (Pa Pa) — Sun, 16 May 2010 15:12:43 +0000

If we “Mormons” are not Christians…then no one fits the bill.

By: Mark Dalby

Mark Dalby — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 19:19:25 +0000

I have found the comments to be interesting regarding Mormons and traditional Christians.

The following article by Orson Scott Card may be of help in understanding the LDS point of view.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695233910/Theology-LDS-god-is-in-harmony-with-the-Bible.html

Now here’s a theological argument between a traditional Christian (TC) and a biblical Christian (LDS):

TC: The Trinity consists of three parallel lines, which touch each other.

LDS: If they touch each other, they’re not parallel.

TC: Nevertheless, they are parallel, and they touch. They touch at every point.

LDS: If they touch at every point, they’re the same line. Not three.

TC: They touch at every point, yet there are three.

LDS: That doesn’t make any sense. Lines can’t be different yet the same, parallel yet intersecting. The words stop having any meaning when you say such things.

TC: That’s because you have a finite, mortal mind, which cannot comprehend the nature of geometry.

LDS: That’s just crazy. The Trinity is three lines, completely distinct, perfectly parallel, so they go infinitely in the same direction. That’s simple, it’s clear, and it’s true. In fact, we’ve seen the lines.

TC: That’s blasphemy! You can never see the lines! They’re only imaginary!

LDS: Your lines are imaginary. The lines we’ve seen are real.

TC: Then you are not Geometers!

And that’s where the discussion always ends.

By: Adam Greenwood

Adam Greenwood — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:03:32 +0000

“So it seems to me that whatever the difficulties in the details of any doctrine of “original sin,” the Christian are right to think it explains why we don’t become perfect in this world or ever through our own efforts, but only by God’s grace. ”

Yep. My opinion is that Mormons who sometimes disagree with the doctrine of original sin misunderstand what the doctrine of original sin is (so do some traditional Christians too, but never mind). if you think of original sin as a doctrine that God wants to send you to hell just for being descended from Adam, then, yeah, Mormons don’t believe it. But if you think of original sin as the doctrine that we’re all fundamentally screwed up, ineradicably tainted with evil by mortal nature (for some values of ineradicable) then, yeah, Mormons better believe it, because their scriptures do and because all experience testifies to it.

By: Phil

Phil — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 20:55:50 +0000

Paul,

Regarding your quoting of Joseph Smith History 1:18-20, this is taken out of context. It was referring to the leaders of different Christian sects in the vicinity of where Joseph Smith lived in New York state in 1820, not to modern Christians of the current day. Not to say that it does not apply to some people in our day, be they of any faith, but certainly not in any kind of general way. Also, we should not judge others’ Christianity but should leave that up to God. I don’t as a Mormon try to judge the members of other churches, whether or not they are followers of Christ, but leave it as a thing that is between them and God. I am willing to share what I have and know, and help where I can, but ultimately God is the judge and is the only one who knows their innermost desires and intentions, strengths and weaknesses.

By: Peter Lawler

Peter Lawler — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 12:50:28 +0000

So it appears to me that Jim laid down the true challenge, and the responses have been most thoughtful and fascinating. It may be above my pay grade and certainly beyond the time I have this morning to respond. I barely had time to get all the reading done. But two points: It did immediately occur to me, when reading David Bentley Hart’s new “Orthodox” book, that what he says about what he thinks the Orthodox thinks the early theologians teach about the “divinization” of each of us through Christ sounded strikingly Mormon. (It also seems to me that Hart sounded Mormon, so to speak, when describing what hell is–separation from God’s love etc. and nothing more. And I also agree that most Christians today–including the “orthodox” in a broader sense–are reluctant to speak confidently about the eternal damnation of anyone.) A couple of Evangelical reviews I’ve read of that book have been creeped out by the extremism of DBH’s manner of expressing that view about personal divinization.

Point 2, finally: It also seems to me that the Mormons expect too much of sincere repetence from sinners and so grade too hard on personal behavior etc. when it comes to excommunication. While the evangelicals might be too complacent in saying that the “born again” remain sinners (which why Bill Clinton returned so readily to his Baptist roots during his troubles), it is true enough that repetence doesn’t make the sinner into something else in this world, except in the rare cases of the saints. So it seems to me that whatever the difficulties in the details of any doctrine of “original sin,” the Christian are right to think it explains why we don’t become perfect in this world or ever through our own efforts, but only by God’s grace. This life, of course, is the only one we get for the Christians, which imposes another definite time limit on any personal struggle for perfection. Socrates, the mortal, knew he never could become a wise man or a God in that sense.

By: Cheryl Gehrke

Cheryl Gehrke — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 03:54:47 +0000

My friend who is a member of the Assembly of God church sent me this web site and knowing I am a Mormon, asked me what I thought. I just wanted to say that we believe in Jesus Christ and know that He is God’s only begotten son. We are God’s children too, but not like Jesus was and is. We believe that Jesus, Heavenly Father and The Holy Ghost are separate entities and are not one personage with 3 spirits in it. Jesus is the literal son of God and they can stand next to each other, and they are two separate distinct beings. The Holy Ghost is separate and distinct. But being that we love and believe in Christ as our redeemer, that fact alone would indicate that we are indeed Christians. We do believe that our church was established as the true authority handed down by God, & Jesus Christ. The keys of authority were handed down to Joseph Smith by Peter, James & John. Elijah the prophet handed down to Joseph Smith the keys to binding the fathers to the children and the children to the fathers. I believe in my church more than any other thing I ever believed in in my life. I believe that God and Jesus appeared to Joseph Smith and that our prophets today have all the revelations and prophecy that God wants to give us and if we listen to them, our lives will be much better.

By: John C.

John C. — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 03:35:18 +0000

also, just because you brought it up, that US Constitution, made by a bunch of masons, is sure a deceitful document, no?

By: John C.

John C. — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 03:34:16 +0000

Paul,
I have no reason to believe that you are familiar with the original meaning of these terms or these ideas. You may well be erudite and learned in these matters, but your manner here doesn’t demonstrate (in fact, your seeming inability to entertain opposing arguments seems to argue against erudtion). Nonetheless, you’ve yet to demonstrate that you have a deeper understanding of the original intent or message of the Gospels than any of the rest of us. Is there any reason I should take your word for anything, because it doesn’t seem reliable on face value?

By: Paul

Paul — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 03:09:53 +0000

Those early “Christians” who believed Christ was merely mortal were corrected by the Apostles.

The Apostles were directed by Christ to guard the faith. That others held varying beliefs that contradicted Apostolic version of Christianity is neither surprising nor have any bearing on the authenticity of the original Orthodox views..

Yogananda’s New Age “Self Realization Fellowship” which is basically Hinduism/Kriya Yoga holds Christ as one of their “gurus” does this make SRF “Christian”? Everyone who mentions Christ or has a view of Him…. How is that necessarily automatically Christian?

Paul warned against the Gnostics All you have to do is read the New Testament to see them being mentioned and warnings against them…

Yes, they have views on Christ which differ from the Orthodox, Ironically it was the French Professor of Gnositicism Rene Guenon who came to the conclusion and whose writings convinced me after years of wandering through Gnostic studies that the Orthodox branches of any religion are the most authentic.

Of course in the toxic “relative truth” atmosphere of the late 20th / early 21st century Everything means anything means nothing at all.

The belief in the equal Trinity pre-existed the 4th century in the same way the bible as a collection of authentically Christian books pre-existed the second council of Nicea. It was merely acknowledged (Not invented) at a certain point as being authentic.