Comments on: Come Let Us Reason Together

By: Mike Currie

Mike Currie — Sun, 16 Jan 2011 19:27:17 +0000

I have a friend with whom I have been having conversations for about 8 years. We talk of things that matter. We disagree about most things. He is a self described Darwinian materialist with the requisite progressive perspective. We get along quite well. We both have our agendas and yet often in the flow of conversation we hit on moments of agreement. I think this is because very few people have thought of everything implied by their political, philosophical or ideological views. In these gaps there seems to be an opportunity for conversation shorn, to a degree, of our previously mentioned positions. Aside from the issues of the day and subjects that are timeless I have tried to engage him in a way that would reveal the source of or the reason for his view of things. He is liberal and he is not stupid but as I tell him, he is wrong. Why he is wrong extends beyond the particulars of his stated beliefs and bleeds into his experiences and the tilt of his mind. This attempt to find his reasons came from my attempts to understand how it is that people of equal intelligence, who are well informed, well intentioned, well spoken and who live on the same planet can come to such diametrically different conclusions. Without having come to any comprehensive conclusion I have reached a considered one. Perspectives and attitudes regarding human sexuality with all its accompanying issues is the great divider. This is not to say that everyone on each side agrees with everything attributible to their side but in general the divide is here. Added to this is the realization that this has not always been the case and many of the other things that have divided humans still do but my sense is that even these have come to rest left and right of the divide. Finally though even the issues related to sexuality and its offspring come down to one question and that is what does it mean to be a human and how do and how should our answers play out in a free society.Until we can approach something like a common moral language we as a people are in danger of slipping into cultural, political and moral incoherance and that would be stupid.

By: Robert Cheeks

Robert Cheeks — Sun, 16 Jan 2011 14:15:43 +0000

This is a very smart essay in a number of ways, primarily, I think, by pointing to liberal condescension as a factor in causing the loss of liberty.
But, I don’t think ‘conservatives’ have anything to fear from this ‘condescension’.
Contemporary liberalism fails or rather derails because this system is defined by certain attributes that require the liberal to constantly seeks to particpate in the “Utopian imagination.”
In immanest terms the liberal has to participate in an “intellectual fraud,” purposefully deceive himself, or be so incompetent as not to be able to move beyond “..the more sophisticated illiteracy imposed by an educational system.”
In transcendent terms the liberal can define himself as “Christian” only by perverting the teachings of the Word, or by constructing a false God in the “social justice” Jesus. If the ‘liberal’ proclaims his rejection of God, the distortions of the liberal activist tend to move toward a recognition that violence/revolution is required to establish a Utopia where human perfection obtainable.
Liberalism is a pathology that incorporates a decline or distortion of mental and spiritual faculties that negate any possiblity of carrying on a discussion of reality. The reality of the liberal is the activist’s ‘dreamworld,’ while the Platonic-Aristotlian “image of reality” understands the failings of man in the cycles of existence where some level of order is obtained, then succumbs to decay, disintegration, and the failures inherent in the ‘fallen’ nature of man.

By: M. P.

M. P. — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:29:22 +0000

Thank God for giants such as Pope Jon Paul 11 as well as our current Pope and the many saints in The Church who demonstrate to us what true freedom is about – to be able to live to the best potential that The Father has for us , being able to see each other in the merits and love of God Incarnate , with its attendant grace to be forgiving , caring for the dignity of each other , to expose and help those who are caught up in enemy camps – an enemy that is poweful, intelligent, deceptive , that has been against us since our first days !

Is it foolish to discount such an enemy and to think that we are ‘free’ to fall for its seductions and false promises !

Is it wise to recognise that God can make use of even the little in the eyes of the world, to call attention to these ever prevailing truths !

By: Richard H

Richard H — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 17:45:07 +0000

It is easy for people, whether they be liberal, conservative, or something else, to think they have come to hold the positions they hold because they are smart and good. It may be the case that some of these folks ARE smart and good, but as long as we see this as the why our own beliefs came to be (and remain) ours, we are setting ourselves up to believe that any who differ from us must not have our qualities, i.e., they must be stupid and evil.

As at least some kind of conservative, I recognize that the substantive positions I hold are quite frequently directly or indirectly attributable to the traditions I inhabit. I did not create them from scratch, or arrive at them by some purely neutral, disinterested, objective reasoning. Recognizing also that there are a multiplicity of traditions out there, I can attribute the positions of others to their place in other – and rival – traditions, whether they consider their positions tradition dependent or not. When I take them as participants in a rival tradition, holding positions contrary to my own on that basis, I need not take them as holding the positions they do because they are stupid or evil (though they might well be stupid and evil, since some humans are). Since I do not need to impute stupidity and an evil character to them in order to defend my own position (or argue with theirs), I can offer even my greatest opponents respect even as I strongly disagree and contend with them.

By: Blake

Blake — Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:22:54 +0000

There are in fact many things that well-educated supporters of liberal philosophies know, that your average guy on the street doesn’t. All of us know things that other people don’t – that is why communication is so important: not one of us knows more than anyone else, we all just know different things.

But some of the most relevant and exciting new information coming out of various new areas of research, tends to be left-tilting.

But what good does that do anyone, if instead of arguing their case, they evade the subject? It is up to the left to figure out that they aren’t going to get anywhere by simply denigrating & refusing to listen to other viewpoints. Just because they know something relevant doesn’t mean they know everything. Liberals in American politics over the past several decades have consistently responded to unintended consequences by shutting down the feedback mechanisms, resorting to evasion and denigration instead of conversation.

I believe that the left as a whole relies heavily on avoidance rather than on persuasion because they themselves have a few denial-issues they’re not ready to confront.

IMO the biggest denial issue confronting liberals today is how, on the one hand, that we are all entitled to self-governance, the right to participate in a free and fair meritocracy, etc.- and on the other, a deeply held belief that a single perfect society is possible, and that the smart or elite members of society need to take the active role in shaping that society for the benefit of the stupids.

That might be why they apparently live in fear of the people they think of as the stupids. They know that even stupid people want to be active participants in the political process, and have a voice – and under the current law they have that right. But they’re stupids! They’re not qualified! And what they want is “wrong”! So what do you do? Ignore them and hope they go away? Or ignore them and hope they don’t shoot you?