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	<title>Comments on: Carl&#8217;s Rock Songbook #43:  Roll over Beethoven?</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/04/01/carls-rock-songbook-43-roll-over-beethoven/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:57:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Berlioz on a Saturday: Les Troyens &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/04/01/carls-rock-songbook-43-roll-over-beethoven/comment-page-1/#comment-32377</link>
		<dc:creator>Berlioz on a Saturday: Les Troyens &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2013 19:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=6513#comment-32377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] case you read this too late, you can sample a few highlights I linked in my old &#8220;Roll Over Beethoven?&#8221; Songbook essay from last year. One of these, the famous &#8220;love duet,&#8221; takes some of its [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] case you read this too late, you can sample a few highlights I linked in my old &#8220;Roll Over Beethoven?&#8221; Songbook essay from last year. One of these, the famous &#8220;love duet,&#8221; takes some of its [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Greatness of Dave Brubeck &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/04/01/carls-rock-songbook-43-roll-over-beethoven/comment-page-1/#comment-31294</link>
		<dc:creator>The Greatness of Dave Brubeck &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 20:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=6513#comment-31294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] is, back in Rock Songbook #43, I did not just have Duke Ellington in mind, but Brubeck also, when I quoted Ralph Ellison [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is, back in Rock Songbook #43, I did not just have Duke Ellington in mind, but Brubeck also, when I quoted Ralph Ellison [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Siegel and the Songbook &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/04/01/carls-rock-songbook-43-roll-over-beethoven/comment-page-1/#comment-18881</link>
		<dc:creator>Siegel and the Songbook &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=6513#comment-18881</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] to music, the low, the high, and even the middle-brow version of the high. He could go to my last post, about the tensions between classical music and popular culture, or better yet, to perhaps the most [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to music, the low, the high, and even the middle-brow version of the high. He could go to my last post, about the tensions between classical music and popular culture, or better yet, to perhaps the most [...]</p>
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		<title>By: darrenk</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/04/01/carls-rock-songbook-43-roll-over-beethoven/comment-page-1/#comment-18516</link>
		<dc:creator>darrenk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=6513#comment-18516</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is part of the idea that there&#039;s something &#039;barbaric&#039; about emphasizing the 2 and the 4 beat instead of the 1 and the 3?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is part of the idea that there&#8217;s something &#8216;barbaric&#8217; about emphasizing the 2 and the 4 beat instead of the 1 and the 3?</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Eric Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/04/01/carls-rock-songbook-43-roll-over-beethoven/comment-page-1/#comment-18453</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Eric Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=6513#comment-18453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree you, Ghaleon Q about indie rock improving over the last decade, and about a resurgence of &quot;pop art&quot; style having a good deal to do with it.  

Oh, and I think you know it, but I am not &lt;i&gt;for&lt;/i&gt; primitivism.  I can get drawn into it for a bit by a rock n&#039; roll leaning band like the Morlocks, or AC/DC, but it&#039;s not my thing.  Because I think it is a thing that would make me a worse person were I to let it become one of my things.

You see, what is scariest about metal is that one really could learn to like it.  As a teenage fan for a few years, I should know.   But I suppose one could learn to like &quot;The Jersey Shore&quot; or &quot;How Much Is That Doggie in the Window,&quot; if one is doggedly determined to be open-minded.  

I believe it&#039;s Walt Whitman who says somewhere, something along these lines:  &lt;i&gt;I will let nothing that&#039;s human become a stranger to me.&lt;/i&gt;  But I say, the less I personally know about how it is that the human soul might attune itself to metal, the better.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree you, Ghaleon Q about indie rock improving over the last decade, and about a resurgence of &#8220;pop art&#8221; style having a good deal to do with it.  </p>
<p>Oh, and I think you know it, but I am not <i>for</i> primitivism.  I can get drawn into it for a bit by a rock n&#8217; roll leaning band like the Morlocks, or AC/DC, but it&#8217;s not my thing.  Because I think it is a thing that would make me a worse person were I to let it become one of my things.</p>
<p>You see, what is scariest about metal is that one really could learn to like it.  As a teenage fan for a few years, I should know.   But I suppose one could learn to like &#8220;The Jersey Shore&#8221; or &#8220;How Much Is That Doggie in the Window,&#8221; if one is doggedly determined to be open-minded.  </p>
<p>I believe it&#8217;s Walt Whitman who says somewhere, something along these lines:  <i>I will let nothing that&#8217;s human become a stranger to me.</i>  But I say, the less I personally know about how it is that the human soul might attune itself to metal, the better.</p>
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		<title>By: Latest Rock Musicians News &#187; The best of Rock</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/04/01/carls-rock-songbook-43-roll-over-beethoven/comment-page-1/#comment-18448</link>
		<dc:creator>Latest Rock Musicians News &#187; The best of Rock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2012 11:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=6513#comment-18448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Carl&#039;s Rock Songbook #43: Roll over Beethoven? Rock and disco, the typical middle-class alternatives to Afro-American popular music, are inferior forms of music; however, as Pete Townsend helped us to see in the last Songbook post, it may usually be too difficult, and is (arguably) inauthentic &#8230; Read more on First Things (blog) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Carl&#039;s Rock Songbook #43: Roll over Beethoven? Rock and disco, the typical middle-class alternatives to Afro-American popular music, are inferior forms of music; however, as Pete Townsend helped us to see in the last Songbook post, it may usually be too difficult, and is (arguably) inauthentic &#8230; Read more on First Things (blog) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: GhaleonQ</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/04/01/carls-rock-songbook-43-roll-over-beethoven/comment-page-1/#comment-18440</link>
		<dc:creator>GhaleonQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 23:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=6513#comment-18440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And I would love for you to get around to the metal subgenres.  You addressed it briefly with regard to Led Zeppelin&#039;s fantastical themes, but didn&#039;t really reach the meat of the broader argument.

You don&#039;t even have to stray outside of the United States for good examples (though you ought to do so).  The most popular metal band of the last 20 years is from lower class Atlanta, is refreshingly silly-yet-ferocious (postmodern takes on 1970s rock and 1950s rock, respectively) http://rabbitsblack.com/2011/10/album-review-mastodon-the-hunter , and looks utterly scary.  They fit the primitivist mold you want in &quot;rock.&quot;

However, they do albums based around the classical elements and high literature, they rip lines from Beethoven, and openly reference the influence of their parents teaching them horn and piano.  http://www.rocksound.tv/features/article/rock-sound-classic-features-mastodon]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I would love for you to get around to the metal subgenres.  You addressed it briefly with regard to Led Zeppelin&#8217;s fantastical themes, but didn&#8217;t really reach the meat of the broader argument.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t even have to stray outside of the United States for good examples (though you ought to do so).  The most popular metal band of the last 20 years is from lower class Atlanta, is refreshingly silly-yet-ferocious (postmodern takes on 1970s rock and 1950s rock, respectively) <a href="http://rabbitsblack.com/2011/10/album-review-mastodon-the-hunter" rel="nofollow">http://rabbitsblack.com/2011/10/album-review-mastodon-the-hunter</a> , and looks utterly scary.  They fit the primitivist mold you want in &#8220;rock.&#8221;</p>
<p>However, they do albums based around the classical elements and high literature, they rip lines from Beethoven, and openly reference the influence of their parents teaching them horn and piano.  <a href="http://www.rocksound.tv/features/article/rock-sound-classic-features-mastodon" rel="nofollow">http://www.rocksound.tv/features/article/rock-sound-classic-features-mastodon</a></p>
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		<title>By: GhaleonQ</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/04/01/carls-rock-songbook-43-roll-over-beethoven/comment-page-1/#comment-18439</link>
		<dc:creator>GhaleonQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 23:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=6513#comment-18439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;But ours have been less happy times for living out that tension.&quot;

I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s true.  Popular&#039;s music gotten so much better in the last 10 years that &quot;pop-art&quot; musicians have gotten lots of popularity.  On the poppiest end, you have Sufjan Stevens lovingly overstuffed arrangements (when he&#039;s not doing 7 Swans folk; this diversity also speaks to my generation&#039;s love for &quot;the tension&quot;).  Nico Muhly does mainstream arrangements for rock&#039;n&#039;roll bands like Grizzly Bear, proper art music of his own, and motivates others to do so: http://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/eno-launches-worldwide-search-for-opera-creators http://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/enos-mini-operas-launches .  Bjork&#039;s Biophilia album topped many year-end lists.  She&#039;s influenced as much by Arvo Part as by electronic and rock&#039;n&#039;roll musicians.  Johann Johannsson did 1970s guitar rock cheese with Apparat Organ Quartet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkf0eV3lWyQ and then did the intensely moving soundtrack to a much lesser film called The Miners&#039; Hymns.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CgxWFTOaw  Tim Hecker has music where he loops guitar riffs and music where he offers breathtaking organ performances.  http://thequietus.com/articles/08304-tim-hecker-interview  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ft2U8NJDns Hauschka plays a prepared piano http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssvfZhYWccs , but he also plays in a new wave band.

Granted, these aren&#039;t chart-toppers, but they&#039;re certainly indie-famous.  (I could list a ton of people from Japan and Russia, specifically, who are well-known there but not here).  It&#039;s by skipping over the blues nonsense (in my opinion) that they got back to &quot;low art versions of high art.&quot;  At the very least, 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TboOfiTjhU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrGMIdemDnQ
strikes me as a better combination of immediacy and thoughtfulness than Ella Fitzgerald.  Yes, all of the above descend from rock&#039;n&#039;roll (as you use the term).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But ours have been less happy times for living out that tension.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s true.  Popular&#8217;s music gotten so much better in the last 10 years that &#8220;pop-art&#8221; musicians have gotten lots of popularity.  On the poppiest end, you have Sufjan Stevens lovingly overstuffed arrangements (when he&#8217;s not doing 7 Swans folk; this diversity also speaks to my generation&#8217;s love for &#8220;the tension&#8221;).  Nico Muhly does mainstream arrangements for rock&#8217;n'roll bands like Grizzly Bear, proper art music of his own, and motivates others to do so: <a href="http://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/eno-launches-worldwide-search-for-opera-creators" rel="nofollow">http://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/eno-launches-worldwide-search-for-opera-creators</a> <a href="http://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/enos-mini-operas-launches" rel="nofollow">http://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/enos-mini-operas-launches</a> .  Bjork&#8217;s Biophilia album topped many year-end lists.  She&#8217;s influenced as much by Arvo Part as by electronic and rock&#8217;n'roll musicians.  Johann Johannsson did 1970s guitar rock cheese with Apparat Organ Quartet <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkf0eV3lWyQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkf0eV3lWyQ</a> and then did the intensely moving soundtrack to a much lesser film called The Miners&#8217; Hymns.  <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CgxWFTOaw" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CgxWFTOaw</a>  Tim Hecker has music where he loops guitar riffs and music where he offers breathtaking organ performances.  <a href="http://thequietus.com/articles/08304-tim-hecker-interview" rel="nofollow">http://thequietus.com/articles/08304-tim-hecker-interview</a>  <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ft2U8NJDns" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ft2U8NJDns</a> Hauschka plays a prepared piano <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssvfZhYWccs" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssvfZhYWccs</a> , but he also plays in a new wave band.</p>
<p>Granted, these aren&#8217;t chart-toppers, but they&#8217;re certainly indie-famous.  (I could list a ton of people from Japan and Russia, specifically, who are well-known there but not here).  It&#8217;s by skipping over the blues nonsense (in my opinion) that they got back to &#8220;low art versions of high art.&#8221;  At the very least,<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TboOfiTjhU" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TboOfiTjhU</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrGMIdemDnQ" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrGMIdemDnQ</a><br />
strikes me as a better combination of immediacy and thoughtfulness than Ella Fitzgerald.  Yes, all of the above descend from rock&#8217;n'roll (as you use the term).</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Lawler</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/04/01/carls-rock-songbook-43-roll-over-beethoven/comment-page-1/#comment-18431</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Lawler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 14:39:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=6513#comment-18431</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So quite a brilliant post.  Watched SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER last night.  You can see the longings for being CLASSY and CLASSICAL there in that trashy world, longings that would be untouched by reading Plato. The next step is for Carl to start writing some of the classically attuned pop music that would elevate us.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So quite a brilliant post.  Watched SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER last night.  You can see the longings for being CLASSY and CLASSICAL there in that trashy world, longings that would be untouched by reading Plato. The next step is for Carl to start writing some of the classically attuned pop music that would elevate us.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl&#8217;s Rock Songbook #43: Roll over Beethoven? &#8211; First Things (blog) &#124; Rock Video Site</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/04/01/carls-rock-songbook-43-roll-over-beethoven/comment-page-1/#comment-18425</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl&#8217;s Rock Songbook #43: Roll over Beethoven? &#8211; First Things (blog) &#124; Rock Video Site</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2012 11:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=6513#comment-18425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] post by RollingStone.com: Music News and software by Elliott Back  April 1st, 2012 &#124; Category: Rock Video [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] post by RollingStone.com: Music News and software by Elliott Back  April 1st, 2012 | Category: Rock Video [...]</p>
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