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	<title>Comments on: Who Needs You?</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/16/who-needs-you/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Sex and the Single Girls &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/16/who-needs-you/comment-page-1/#comment-30713</link>
		<dc:creator>Sex and the Single Girls &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8714#comment-30713</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] this an update to earlier discussions or a segue from Carl&#8217;s latest on Damsel&#8217;s in Distress. Tweet    Comments [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this an update to earlier discussions or a segue from Carl&#8217;s latest on Damsel&#8217;s in Distress. Tweet    Comments [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Art Deco</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/16/who-needs-you/comment-page-1/#comment-27312</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Deco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 21:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8714#comment-27312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;@Jim, who cares? She is a proffesional [sic.] feminist.&lt;/i&gt;

It is a reasonable inference that she and whatshisname are making a hash of rearing their children.  Pity for the kids (and anyone who has to deal with their daughter later in life).  It is certainly worth someone&#039;s cares.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>@Jim, who cares? She is a proffesional [sic.] feminist.</i></p>
<p>It is a reasonable inference that she and whatshisname are making a hash of rearing their children.  Pity for the kids (and anyone who has to deal with their daughter later in life).  It is certainly worth someone&#8217;s cares.</p>
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		<title>By: John Lewis</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/16/who-needs-you/comment-page-1/#comment-27272</link>
		<dc:creator>John Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 17:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8714#comment-27272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Jim, who cares? She is a proffesional feminist. Which means she has to make money and appeal to her &quot;red meat&quot; or perhaps &quot;tofu-vegan&quot; audience. Her son doesn&#039;t care because all of copyright is just words(or immages or song?)...If the mother makes &quot;bank&quot; playing the game, it is all good. In fact the son could be someone confused about the intellectual property dynamics of why folks are paying for this and consider it a good or service. (a la Art Deco, maybe) The &quot;death&quot; of manufacturing is basically about not making things. Making things involves patent, or some sort of process or mechanics, starting and ending with a tangible good.  If some woman finds a way to make money being a feminist, then why not encourage it? being the butt of a joke for money, seems ok in reliance upon the rather worn but somewhat true: &quot;Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.&quot; In fact some portion of the service economy seems hell bent on testing all the aspects of this common sense proposition. 

Hum...&quot;I’ll give her “fool” and not “frightening” but the numbers of intellectual fools these days is frightening.&quot; What, &quot;intellectual fools&quot;? is that code for aggregate demand in the copyright feminism &quot;industrial&quot; complex?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jim, who cares? She is a proffesional feminist. Which means she has to make money and appeal to her &#8220;red meat&#8221; or perhaps &#8220;tofu-vegan&#8221; audience. Her son doesn&#8217;t care because all of copyright is just words(or immages or song?)&#8230;If the mother makes &#8220;bank&#8221; playing the game, it is all good. In fact the son could be someone confused about the intellectual property dynamics of why folks are paying for this and consider it a good or service. (a la Art Deco, maybe) The &#8220;death&#8221; of manufacturing is basically about not making things. Making things involves patent, or some sort of process or mechanics, starting and ending with a tangible good.  If some woman finds a way to make money being a feminist, then why not encourage it? being the butt of a joke for money, seems ok in reliance upon the rather worn but somewhat true: &#8220;Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me.&#8221; In fact some portion of the service economy seems hell bent on testing all the aspects of this common sense proposition. </p>
<p>Hum&#8230;&#8221;I’ll give her “fool” and not “frightening” but the numbers of intellectual fools these days is frightening.&#8221; What, &#8220;intellectual fools&#8221;? is that code for aggregate demand in the copyright feminism &#8220;industrial&#8221; complex?</p>
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		<title>By: Art Deco</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/16/who-needs-you/comment-page-1/#comment-27131</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Deco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 22:27:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8714#comment-27131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Looks like Hymowitz touched a chord.&lt;/i&gt;

If you are obnoxious enough, and can persuade some belly editor to put it between hard covers, you touch a chord.  The woman is a lapsed english teacher whose social research in its first instance was based on reading laddie magazines.  What she was doing was a completely unserious enterprise.

&lt;i&gt;Maybe the problem with Rosin’s analysis is that there aren’t any men to sample.&lt;/i&gt;

Of course, tens of millions of males in this country hold down regular jobs at every level of the economy and hold the vast majority of jobs which have vigorous operational measures of competence.  Millions marry and have children each year.  You talk like that and you forfeit the privilege of anything &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; say being taken seriously.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Looks like Hymowitz touched a chord.</i></p>
<p>If you are obnoxious enough, and can persuade some belly editor to put it between hard covers, you touch a chord.  The woman is a lapsed english teacher whose social research in its first instance was based on reading laddie magazines.  What she was doing was a completely unserious enterprise.</p>
<p><i>Maybe the problem with Rosin’s analysis is that there aren’t any men to sample.</i></p>
<p>Of course, tens of millions of males in this country hold down regular jobs at every level of the economy and hold the vast majority of jobs which have vigorous operational measures of competence.  Millions marry and have children each year.  You talk like that and you forfeit the privilege of anything <i>you</i> say being taken seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/16/who-needs-you/comment-page-1/#comment-27086</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 18:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8714#comment-27086</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, the clip of her abusing her son starts at 9:50.  Thanks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, the clip of her abusing her son starts at 9:50.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/16/who-needs-you/comment-page-1/#comment-27080</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 18:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8714#comment-27080</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here is the clip of Rosin abusing her son for the benefit of her female audience:

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/hanna-rosin-abusing-her-children-on-video/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is the clip of Rosin abusing her son for the benefit of her female audience:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/hanna-rosin-abusing-her-children-on-video/" rel="nofollow">http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/hanna-rosin-abusing-her-children-on-video/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pseudoplotinus</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/16/who-needs-you/comment-page-1/#comment-26982</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudoplotinus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 13:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8714#comment-26982</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Looks like Hymowitz touched a chord. Admittedly I didn&#039;t read her book. But I think there&#039;s a point of contact between what I think Hymowitz&#039;s hypothesis is, and the predicament of single mothers having a hard time looking for good men. And it&#039;s this: men come into the world uncivilized, and require a robust civilizing culture to make them good men. Women as a rule do not. 

Because our society is configured around a Heideggerian celebration of self realization that echews instutions of masculine formation, that robust culture, as embodied by the Boy Scouts, a strong Catachetical Church Culture, masculine role models, is at best frayed, and probably better described as non-existent. Hence the apparent disparity between men and women in a knowledge economy.

We don&#039;t have the institutions that once created good men, and so are lacking in good men. Welcome to the Seth Rogan generation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like Hymowitz touched a chord. Admittedly I didn&#8217;t read her book. But I think there&#8217;s a point of contact between what I think Hymowitz&#8217;s hypothesis is, and the predicament of single mothers having a hard time looking for good men. And it&#8217;s this: men come into the world uncivilized, and require a robust civilizing culture to make them good men. Women as a rule do not. </p>
<p>Because our society is configured around a Heideggerian celebration of self realization that echews instutions of masculine formation, that robust culture, as embodied by the Boy Scouts, a strong Catachetical Church Culture, masculine role models, is at best frayed, and probably better described as non-existent. Hence the apparent disparity between men and women in a knowledge economy.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t have the institutions that once created good men, and so are lacking in good men. Welcome to the Seth Rogan generation.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Pitrone</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/16/who-needs-you/comment-page-1/#comment-26946</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Pitrone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 10:04:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8714#comment-26946</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In June I wrote a different &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/06/04/another-way-to-look-at-the-statistics-a-good-man-is-hard-to-find/&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;provocatively titled post&lt;/a&gt; and in it we discussed Hymnowitz.  Art Deco doesn&#039;t like the way she crunches her numbers, either.  She does look at the statistics and come to a similarly dismal conclusion, but she doesn&#039;t gloat over &quot;the triumph of women&quot; like Rosin does.

What struck me about the review was that the reviewer, Homans, did not embrace the triumphalism of Rosin, while maintaining a somewhat ambiguous stance on the apparent liberation of women.  Here the consequences are a disaster, there, women&#039;s gains, while good, are not likely to last.That could be bad editing for it could mean that feminists are not altogether happy about the world they have they have been trying to produce.  Back to Charles Murray who said that education women of the &quot;success class&quot; (my term) go to work, but otherwise live according to more traditional family values, figuring out what works and what doesn&#039;t.  Free love did not work out so well, for example, though certainly not &lt;em&gt;all&lt;/em&gt; feminists were looking for that.  In my day -- long back, I admit it -- it was a big question for women, should we ever marry and if we did should we insist on open marriage.  What a mess.  There was a lot of talk and those who followed through often found a lot of unhappiness.  Call it the Germaine Greer/Erica Jong side of the movement, maybe.  Don&#039;t they mostly get over it? 

The &quot;who needs you&quot; attitude of some feminists toward men does produce a lot of unhappiness.  I don&#039;t think anyone here disagrees with that.  How much it has actually harmed society in a statistical way (a&#039; la Hymnowitz) is a good question, I think.  It harms us.  If people, women, too, on the Left are taking notice, then that&#039;s good news, as it means improvement or progress against Progress and its unfortunate ends.  

]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In June I wrote a different <a href="http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/06/04/another-way-to-look-at-the-statistics-a-good-man-is-hard-to-find/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">provocatively titled post</a> and in it we discussed Hymnowitz.  Art Deco doesn&#8217;t like the way she crunches her numbers, either.  She does look at the statistics and come to a similarly dismal conclusion, but she doesn&#8217;t gloat over &#8220;the triumph of women&#8221; like Rosin does.</p>
<p>What struck me about the review was that the reviewer, Homans, did not embrace the triumphalism of Rosin, while maintaining a somewhat ambiguous stance on the apparent liberation of women.  Here the consequences are a disaster, there, women&#8217;s gains, while good, are not likely to last.That could be bad editing for it could mean that feminists are not altogether happy about the world they have they have been trying to produce.  Back to Charles Murray who said that education women of the &#8220;success class&#8221; (my term) go to work, but otherwise live according to more traditional family values, figuring out what works and what doesn&#8217;t.  Free love did not work out so well, for example, though certainly not <em>all</em> feminists were looking for that.  In my day &#8212; long back, I admit it &#8212; it was a big question for women, should we ever marry and if we did should we insist on open marriage.  What a mess.  There was a lot of talk and those who followed through often found a lot of unhappiness.  Call it the Germaine Greer/Erica Jong side of the movement, maybe.  Don&#8217;t they mostly get over it? </p>
<p>The &#8220;who needs you&#8221; attitude of some feminists toward men does produce a lot of unhappiness.  I don&#8217;t think anyone here disagrees with that.  How much it has actually harmed society in a statistical way (a&#8217; la Hymnowitz) is a good question, I think.  It harms us.  If people, women, too, on the Left are taking notice, then that&#8217;s good news, as it means improvement or progress against Progress and its unfortunate ends.  </p>
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		<title>By: Art Deco</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/16/who-needs-you/comment-page-1/#comment-26900</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Deco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 02:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8714#comment-26900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No, that is not the problem.  Hymowitz&#039; tripe has been dealt with on other threads here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, that is not the problem.  Hymowitz&#8217; tripe has been dealt with on other threads here.</p>
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		<title>By: Pseudoplotinus</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/16/who-needs-you/comment-page-1/#comment-26892</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudoplotinus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8714#comment-26892</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe the problem with Rosin&#039;s analysis is that there aren&#039;t any men to sample.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/manningup/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the problem with Rosin&#8217;s analysis is that there aren&#8217;t any men to sample.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.manhattan-institute.org/manningup/" rel="nofollow">http://www.manhattan-institute.org/manningup/</a></p>
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