<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Price of Chinese Ultra-Nationalism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/27/the-price-of-chinese-ultra-nationalism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/27/the-price-of-chinese-ultra-nationalism/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 18 Jun 2013 20:57:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Carl Eric Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/27/the-price-of-chinese-ultra-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-28122</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Eric Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 18:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8855#comment-28122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alex, here&#039;s http://ampontan.wordpress.com/2012/09/22/yes-it-is-inconvenient/ a potful of inconvenient facts for you, embedded in a take-down of a recent guest column in the NYT. 

Bottom line: the stronger claims to the islets are  Japan&#039;s.  

And you apparently didn&#039;t know, or thought it beneath contempt to mention, that the recent purchase by the Japanese govt. was to prevent a planned purchase by the Tokyo Metro authority, which had hoped to make an explicit in-China&#039;s-face  &quot;these will be Japan&#039;s forever&quot; point by doing so.  So the govt. purchase was actually an effort to be diplomatic to China.  But regardless of private ownership, the sovereignty of the land remains legally Japanese.  

You also seem unaware of the plethora of evidence, coming from Chinese sources, that many of the demonstrations appear to be orchestrated by a faction of the governmnet, for &quot;distraction&quot; purposes.  Another potful of evidence to that effect can be found here:  http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/sep/20/beijings-dangerous-game/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, here&#8217;s <a href="http://ampontan.wordpress.com/2012/09/22/yes-it-is-inconvenient/" rel="nofollow">http://ampontan.wordpress.com/2012/09/22/yes-it-is-inconvenient/</a> a potful of inconvenient facts for you, embedded in a take-down of a recent guest column in the NYT. </p>
<p>Bottom line: the stronger claims to the islets are  Japan&#8217;s.  </p>
<p>And you apparently didn&#8217;t know, or thought it beneath contempt to mention, that the recent purchase by the Japanese govt. was to prevent a planned purchase by the Tokyo Metro authority, which had hoped to make an explicit in-China&#8217;s-face  &#8220;these will be Japan&#8217;s forever&#8221; point by doing so.  So the govt. purchase was actually an effort to be diplomatic to China.  But regardless of private ownership, the sovereignty of the land remains legally Japanese.  </p>
<p>You also seem unaware of the plethora of evidence, coming from Chinese sources, that many of the demonstrations appear to be orchestrated by a faction of the governmnet, for &#8220;distraction&#8221; purposes.  Another potful of evidence to that effect can be found here:  <a href="http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/sep/20/beijings-dangerous-game/" rel="nofollow">http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/sep/20/beijings-dangerous-game/</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Lewis</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/27/the-price-of-chinese-ultra-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-28086</link>
		<dc:creator>John Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 18:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8855#comment-28086</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think there are very real economic tensions between China and Japan.  China seems to be a nation with a lot of wealth(completly misallocated), a lot of productivity(and production)...and very few lawyers.(which basically means a lot of problems not answered in a narrowly tailored way by pinning down parties who are actually liable).  Not only do they have insufficient internal consumer demand, but most of the products they make aren&#039;t really designed or marketed, or tailored to the Chinese consumer. So there are all sorts of drawbacks to being an export nation. 

To use an american cliche, China basically just needs to work smarter not harder. To develop that american cliche into a Japanese manufacturing process/philosophy, one might say that China needs to cut down on the Muda.

Of course the entire Japanese economy and its exceptionalism is based upon this &quot;smart&quot; or &quot;lean&quot; manufacturing.  So the purported and actual &quot;Muda&quot; of the Chineese is really hurting the brand, or the serviceability and functionality of parts. 

In a nation that lacks the &quot;blessing&quot; of lawyers to diffuse ideological explanations, and pin down guilty/liable parties, there is some sense in taking your frustration out upon the indicia of Japanese supremacy. China just isn&#039;t producing Toyota or Honda level quality.  

A Chinese man severely hurt and near-death because he drove a Toyota...

This is a conflict between Muda and Li. Or basically the way in which the Japanese via Honda and Toyota, have morphed engineering and confuscianism (an exageration?, obviously it can be taught and even presidential candidate folks like Gingrich preach a version of lean manufacturing). So Muda is not exactly a religion of eliminating waste...but it is a ritual, custom, rite, etiquette, moral and process of manufacturing. 

So basically the Japanese Li is different from the Chinese Li, and the Japanese have reintroduced lawyers en masse and answer all problems or half problems, at the lowest level possible before they ever give rise to &quot;nationalistic/ideology&quot;(or a macro-economic, cosmological explanation for that matter) 

So basically this is a conflict over Li and Zhong and the problem is that true Confucianism &quot;replaces&quot; lawyers with a non legalistic conflict resolution process that is actually incapable of lending itself to the levels of precision that american due process or Japanese Muda process as a Li entails. 

It is also not nationalism, it is Zhong... but I suppose that nationalism translates as Loyalty to a nation. The problem of course is if Zhong attaches to a sort of China as mandate of Heaven, and the Japanese component is essentially highly modern and legalistic, and thus in many ways antagonistic to generalized Loyalty, or religious...(Lawyers parse Loyalty, and duties of loyalty, and the Japanese process/Li of conquering Muda, comes down to apportioning Li(which bundles duties of Loyalty) with a fine tooth comb. Japanese Li, or Muda fighting/ quality assurance, deconstructs and eliminates the hold of unconscious or unknowning routines or habits. 

It seems difficult to believe that students in China have no spirituality, but one could also argue that Confucianism is not a religion, in the Japanese context it certainly seems to be legalistically/mechanically aristotleian, or directed towards the development of proper habits.   

But once you start stepping in bringing western legal catagories and products, you restructure Li, and maybe this is a pretty big deal. 

So China really is seeing unprecedented changes, really no nation is so directed toward rootedness and familial piety has had to readjust Li so quickly.           

So the creation of a Chinese Zhong, or of a Chinese Li/Zhong loyalty to habits and processes unique to the structure Chinese life...these seem to align well for a sort of antagonism with Japan, and the material indicia of Japanese presence and differing Li philosophy, i.e. Toyota, Honda, et al. 

In some sense the Chinese resent the topiarization to western Li, and the Li or goods, which fill stores and warehouses with signs of material plenty and productivity, but which are accompanied by pictures of beauty that are western (that is tailored to the tastes of those they export to). (The more you are an export nation, the easier it is to build upon this image resentment.) 

It is an economic problem understood broadly, but economic problems understood broadly are almost always bad(they become grounds for ideology), and china just doesn&#039;t have the legal structure or lawyers to handle these problems narrowly before the resentment gets out of hand, and results in the quasi-irrationality of lashing out against Toyota owners. 

I don&#039;t think China and Japan will go to war, but &quot;hate&quot; crimes against Japanese indicia/Brands could occur.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there are very real economic tensions between China and Japan.  China seems to be a nation with a lot of wealth(completly misallocated), a lot of productivity(and production)&#8230;and very few lawyers.(which basically means a lot of problems not answered in a narrowly tailored way by pinning down parties who are actually liable).  Not only do they have insufficient internal consumer demand, but most of the products they make aren&#8217;t really designed or marketed, or tailored to the Chinese consumer. So there are all sorts of drawbacks to being an export nation. </p>
<p>To use an american cliche, China basically just needs to work smarter not harder. To develop that american cliche into a Japanese manufacturing process/philosophy, one might say that China needs to cut down on the Muda.</p>
<p>Of course the entire Japanese economy and its exceptionalism is based upon this &#8220;smart&#8221; or &#8220;lean&#8221; manufacturing.  So the purported and actual &#8220;Muda&#8221; of the Chineese is really hurting the brand, or the serviceability and functionality of parts. </p>
<p>In a nation that lacks the &#8220;blessing&#8221; of lawyers to diffuse ideological explanations, and pin down guilty/liable parties, there is some sense in taking your frustration out upon the indicia of Japanese supremacy. China just isn&#8217;t producing Toyota or Honda level quality.  </p>
<p>A Chinese man severely hurt and near-death because he drove a Toyota&#8230;</p>
<p>This is a conflict between Muda and Li. Or basically the way in which the Japanese via Honda and Toyota, have morphed engineering and confuscianism (an exageration?, obviously it can be taught and even presidential candidate folks like Gingrich preach a version of lean manufacturing). So Muda is not exactly a religion of eliminating waste&#8230;but it is a ritual, custom, rite, etiquette, moral and process of manufacturing. </p>
<p>So basically the Japanese Li is different from the Chinese Li, and the Japanese have reintroduced lawyers en masse and answer all problems or half problems, at the lowest level possible before they ever give rise to &#8220;nationalistic/ideology&#8221;(or a macro-economic, cosmological explanation for that matter) </p>
<p>So basically this is a conflict over Li and Zhong and the problem is that true Confucianism &#8220;replaces&#8221; lawyers with a non legalistic conflict resolution process that is actually incapable of lending itself to the levels of precision that american due process or Japanese Muda process as a Li entails. </p>
<p>It is also not nationalism, it is Zhong&#8230; but I suppose that nationalism translates as Loyalty to a nation. The problem of course is if Zhong attaches to a sort of China as mandate of Heaven, and the Japanese component is essentially highly modern and legalistic, and thus in many ways antagonistic to generalized Loyalty, or religious&#8230;(Lawyers parse Loyalty, and duties of loyalty, and the Japanese process/Li of conquering Muda, comes down to apportioning Li(which bundles duties of Loyalty) with a fine tooth comb. Japanese Li, or Muda fighting/ quality assurance, deconstructs and eliminates the hold of unconscious or unknowning routines or habits. </p>
<p>It seems difficult to believe that students in China have no spirituality, but one could also argue that Confucianism is not a religion, in the Japanese context it certainly seems to be legalistically/mechanically aristotleian, or directed towards the development of proper habits.   </p>
<p>But once you start stepping in bringing western legal catagories and products, you restructure Li, and maybe this is a pretty big deal. </p>
<p>So China really is seeing unprecedented changes, really no nation is so directed toward rootedness and familial piety has had to readjust Li so quickly.           </p>
<p>So the creation of a Chinese Zhong, or of a Chinese Li/Zhong loyalty to habits and processes unique to the structure Chinese life&#8230;these seem to align well for a sort of antagonism with Japan, and the material indicia of Japanese presence and differing Li philosophy, i.e. Toyota, Honda, et al. </p>
<p>In some sense the Chinese resent the topiarization to western Li, and the Li or goods, which fill stores and warehouses with signs of material plenty and productivity, but which are accompanied by pictures of beauty that are western (that is tailored to the tastes of those they export to). (The more you are an export nation, the easier it is to build upon this image resentment.) </p>
<p>It is an economic problem understood broadly, but economic problems understood broadly are almost always bad(they become grounds for ideology), and china just doesn&#8217;t have the legal structure or lawyers to handle these problems narrowly before the resentment gets out of hand, and results in the quasi-irrationality of lashing out against Toyota owners. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think China and Japan will go to war, but &#8220;hate&#8221; crimes against Japanese indicia/Brands could occur.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/27/the-price-of-chinese-ultra-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-28084</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 18:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8855#comment-28084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the author is missing the point. What sparked the outrage in China is Japan changed the status quo. If Japan would have kept things the way they were, China would not have done anything. Since Japan decided change the island&#039;s ownership, China has to make Japan pay.

Nationalism is good. It keeps people from stepping on your toes, like Japan just did when the purchased that island. If Japan believe they can provoke China and get away with it, it&#039;s sadly mistaken. The strong Chinese response is essential, as next time Japan think about doing something similar, it will think twice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the author is missing the point. What sparked the outrage in China is Japan changed the status quo. If Japan would have kept things the way they were, China would not have done anything. Since Japan decided change the island&#8217;s ownership, China has to make Japan pay.</p>
<p>Nationalism is good. It keeps people from stepping on your toes, like Japan just did when the purchased that island. If Japan believe they can provoke China and get away with it, it&#8217;s sadly mistaken. The strong Chinese response is essential, as next time Japan think about doing something similar, it will think twice.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mike Walsh, MM</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/27/the-price-of-chinese-ultra-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-28078</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Walsh, MM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8855#comment-28078</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I noticed it when I taught in South China:  the students had no spirituality, as such, and the Party had long lost much of its moral authority --eroded by endemic corruption, among other things.  But the students were very sensitive to, and could easily be swayed by appeals to, nationalist sentiment.  That&#039;s all they have left.  One question I have:  China has a surplus of young men.  In the past, this has been an ingredient for military mischief, as these could be used up as cannon-fodder.  But that was in the days when families were large, and could sustain the loss.  China&#039;s one-child policy means that those disaffected young men are the only children of their families.  It is, I think, an unprecedented situation.  It&#039;s one thing to distract the populace from domestic issues by ginning up a threat to national honor; another thing entirely to go to war.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed it when I taught in South China:  the students had no spirituality, as such, and the Party had long lost much of its moral authority &#8211;eroded by endemic corruption, among other things.  But the students were very sensitive to, and could easily be swayed by appeals to, nationalist sentiment.  That&#8217;s all they have left.  One question I have:  China has a surplus of young men.  In the past, this has been an ingredient for military mischief, as these could be used up as cannon-fodder.  But that was in the days when families were large, and could sustain the loss.  China&#8217;s one-child policy means that those disaffected young men are the only children of their families.  It is, I think, an unprecedented situation.  It&#8217;s one thing to distract the populace from domestic issues by ginning up a threat to national honor; another thing entirely to go to war.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: paul seaton</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/27/the-price-of-chinese-ultra-nationalism/comment-page-1/#comment-28076</link>
		<dc:creator>paul seaton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8855#comment-28076</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;ve taken over for Peter Schramm on the China-watch beat; thanks, Carl, keep it up.   And good addendum on &quot;nationalism&quot; (and Manent).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve taken over for Peter Schramm on the China-watch beat; thanks, Carl, keep it up.   And good addendum on &#8220;nationalism&#8221; (and Manent).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
