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	<title>Comments on: We&#8217;re Not Listening &#8212; Lilla and Levin</title>
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		<title>By: Art Deco</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/30/were-not-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-28300</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Deco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8885#comment-28300</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;And I will note that I am a conservative, whose favorite philosophers are Oakeshott and Voegelin, both of whom I have published a fair amount of material on. So I am not some lefty Obama fanboy with stars in his eyes over the President.&lt;/i&gt;

You still ought to be able to tell one politician from another.  Both Bush Sr. and Obama speak English as their native tongue, both spent nearly all of their adult life living in the United States, both have been married once and fathered children, and neither was brought up in the wage earning stratum or lived in it as an adult.  Beyond those points (which apply to all but an odd minority of those who have sought the presidency), these two men are quite dissimilar.  

There is a great deal of continuity in public policy from one administration to the next (due to inertia more than anything else).  That aside, it is difficult to think of particular objects these men have had in common or achievements they have had in common.  You certainly do not specify any.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And I will note that I am a conservative, whose favorite philosophers are Oakeshott and Voegelin, both of whom I have published a fair amount of material on. So I am not some lefty Obama fanboy with stars in his eyes over the President.</i></p>
<p>You still ought to be able to tell one politician from another.  Both Bush Sr. and Obama speak English as their native tongue, both spent nearly all of their adult life living in the United States, both have been married once and fathered children, and neither was brought up in the wage earning stratum or lived in it as an adult.  Beyond those points (which apply to all but an odd minority of those who have sought the presidency), these two men are quite dissimilar.  </p>
<p>There is a great deal of continuity in public policy from one administration to the next (due to inertia more than anything else).  That aside, it is difficult to think of particular objects these men have had in common or achievements they have had in common.  You certainly do not specify any.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Spiliakos</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/30/were-not-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-28290</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Spiliakos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 01:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8885#comment-28290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[AD made the point (clearly I thought) that your view of President Obama was deranged.  He could have added how unlikely it is that Obama will nominate someone of Clarence Thomas&#039;s principles to the Supreme Court.  

You are free to assert that those who disagree with you should focus on the fantasy Obama you have constructed.  But Bush Sr. is so boring for such purposes.  It would be better if you said he is &quot;essentially&quot; like Reagan.  Talk about how Elena Kagan is &quot;essentially&quot; like Robert Bork and Antonin Scalia, but conservatives are too crazy to notice. Talk about how Obama sharply reduced marginal tax rates across-the-board.  If you&#039;re going to be disingenuous, make it fun for the reader. I suppose you would have a point about the deficits - though the largest of Reagan&#039;s deficits was substantially smaller as a percentage of GDP than the smallest of Obama&#039;s deficits.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AD made the point (clearly I thought) that your view of President Obama was deranged.  He could have added how unlikely it is that Obama will nominate someone of Clarence Thomas&#8217;s principles to the Supreme Court.  </p>
<p>You are free to assert that those who disagree with you should focus on the fantasy Obama you have constructed.  But Bush Sr. is so boring for such purposes.  It would be better if you said he is &#8220;essentially&#8221; like Reagan.  Talk about how Elena Kagan is &#8220;essentially&#8221; like Robert Bork and Antonin Scalia, but conservatives are too crazy to notice. Talk about how Obama sharply reduced marginal tax rates across-the-board.  If you&#8217;re going to be disingenuous, make it fun for the reader. I suppose you would have a point about the deficits &#8211; though the largest of Reagan&#8217;s deficits was substantially smaller as a percentage of GDP than the smallest of Obama&#8217;s deficits.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Pitrone</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/30/were-not-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-28289</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Pitrone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8885#comment-28289</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr. Callahan, you misread my comment.  I was amused, not stunned, and asked you to spell out your reasoning.  You can tell me the elephant is a mouse, but if it looks like a mouse to me, I don&#039;t have to believe you.  You have three of us saying something like, &quot;Elephant?&quot; which means that you need more than simple assertion. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Callahan, you misread my comment.  I was amused, not stunned, and asked you to spell out your reasoning.  You can tell me the elephant is a mouse, but if it looks like a mouse to me, I don&#8217;t have to believe you.  You have three of us saying something like, &#8220;Elephant?&#8221; which means that you need more than simple assertion. </p>
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		<title>By: Gene Callahan</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/30/were-not-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-28286</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Callahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8885#comment-28286</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kate and Art: Lilla and I say GOP partisans&#039; view of Obama is deranged. You both are stunned, stunned by this fact!

Well, when someone tells the deranged person that the &quot;elephant&quot; in the corner is just a mouse, the fact he thinks they are nuts is not counter-evidence!

And I will note that I am a conservative, whose favorite philosophers are Oakeshott and Voegelin, both of whom I have published a fair amount of material on. So I am not some lefty Obama fanboy with stars in his eyes over the President.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kate and Art: Lilla and I say GOP partisans&#8217; view of Obama is deranged. You both are stunned, stunned by this fact!</p>
<p>Well, when someone tells the deranged person that the &#8220;elephant&#8221; in the corner is just a mouse, the fact he thinks they are nuts is not counter-evidence!</p>
<p>And I will note that I am a conservative, whose favorite philosophers are Oakeshott and Voegelin, both of whom I have published a fair amount of material on. So I am not some lefty Obama fanboy with stars in his eyes over the President.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Deco</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/30/were-not-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-28283</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Deco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2012 22:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8885#comment-28283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;We really have, essentially, Bush Sr. as president again, and Republicans are going bananas as if it is Vladimir Lenin instead.&lt;/i&gt;

Bush, Sr. did not present budget plans requiring public sector borrowing to the tune of 9% of gross domestic product year after year; Bush, Sr. managed to negotiate compromises with the Congressional leadership of the day; Bush, Sr. had no interest in compelling private institutions to pay for contraception and abortion; Bush Sr. did not propose a Rube Goldberg scheme to restructure the financing of medical care in this country &lt;i&gt;without addressing any of the extant system&#039;s important flaws&lt;/i&gt;; Bush, Sr. did not sign into law a Rube Goldberg scheme to amend the regulation of the financial sector &lt;i&gt;without addressing any of the extant system&#039;s important flaws&lt;/i&gt;; Bush Sr actually presided over the resolution of the Savings &amp; Loan mess inherited from the previous administration; Bush Sr. did not stick us with Sonia Sotomayer... and so forth.

Gene Callahan, is it better to remain silent and be thought a fool or ... oh, you know the rest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>We really have, essentially, Bush Sr. as president again, and Republicans are going bananas as if it is Vladimir Lenin instead.</i></p>
<p>Bush, Sr. did not present budget plans requiring public sector borrowing to the tune of 9% of gross domestic product year after year; Bush, Sr. managed to negotiate compromises with the Congressional leadership of the day; Bush, Sr. had no interest in compelling private institutions to pay for contraception and abortion; Bush Sr. did not propose a Rube Goldberg scheme to restructure the financing of medical care in this country <i>without addressing any of the extant system&#8217;s important flaws</i>; Bush, Sr. did not sign into law a Rube Goldberg scheme to amend the regulation of the financial sector <i>without addressing any of the extant system&#8217;s important flaws</i>; Bush Sr actually presided over the resolution of the Savings &amp; Loan mess inherited from the previous administration; Bush Sr. did not stick us with Sonia Sotomayer&#8230; and so forth.</p>
<p>Gene Callahan, is it better to remain silent and be thought a fool or &#8230; oh, you know the rest.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Baum</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/30/were-not-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-28265</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Baum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8885#comment-28265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It certainly is bizarre. We really have, essentially, Bush Sr. as president again, and Republicans are going bananas as if it is Vladimir Lenin instead.

The nicest observation one could about that statement is that IT is bizarre. There is no way Bush Sr. would ever have sought to make people opposed to abortion pay for it, for starters. I suppose you think Taft and Wilson were identical.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It certainly is bizarre. We really have, essentially, Bush Sr. as president again, and Republicans are going bananas as if it is Vladimir Lenin instead.</p>
<p>The nicest observation one could about that statement is that IT is bizarre. There is no way Bush Sr. would ever have sought to make people opposed to abortion pay for it, for starters. I suppose you think Taft and Wilson were identical.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Pitrone</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/30/were-not-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-28260</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Pitrone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2012 14:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8885#comment-28260</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not Nixon, but Bush Sr.?  You cannot be serious, Mr. Callahan. If not, please make the comparison clear. How is Obama like Bush Sr.?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not Nixon, but Bush Sr.?  You cannot be serious, Mr. Callahan. If not, please make the comparison clear. How is Obama like Bush Sr.?</p>
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		<title>By: Gene Callahan</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/30/were-not-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-28244</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene Callahan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2012 10:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8885#comment-28244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;He finds Republican dislike and distrust of Obama improbable and even deranged.&quot;

It certainly is bizarre. We really have, essentially, Bush Sr. as president again, and Republicans are going bananas as if it is Vladimir Lenin instead.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He finds Republican dislike and distrust of Obama improbable and even deranged.&#8221;</p>
<p>It certainly is bizarre. We really have, essentially, Bush Sr. as president again, and Republicans are going bananas as if it is Vladimir Lenin instead.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Pitrone</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/30/were-not-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-28199</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Pitrone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 19:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8885#comment-28199</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Tea Party is a mixed bag, John.  I&#039;ve met people in favor of a Christian takeover of the nation, enforcing something like the Ten Commandments on everyone.  Alternatively, I&#039;ve met folks whose individualism would put Ayn Rand to shame.  Laissez-faire or feudal in their economics.  I don&#039;t trust that brand name.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Tea Party is a mixed bag, John.  I&#8217;ve met people in favor of a Christian takeover of the nation, enforcing something like the Ten Commandments on everyone.  Alternatively, I&#8217;ve met folks whose individualism would put Ayn Rand to shame.  Laissez-faire or feudal in their economics.  I don&#8217;t trust that brand name.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate Pitrone</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/09/30/were-not-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-28198</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Pitrone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2012 19:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=8885#comment-28198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Carl, isn&#039;t Lilla funny?  I am not sure he is being disingenuous, though.  Reading the positive comments on his review, lots of liberals wish to see themselves like that.  Maybe it is the new liberal political fashion.  The comments also made me realize that my fellow faculty members would embrace his historical revision. They all think they are moderate and are all basically like European Social Democrats. The exception may be the part about Nixon.  I haven&#039;t heard anyone say this about Nixon in years.  My memory of conservatives in the early 70s is of plenty of outrage and resentment over Nixon &quot;pandering&quot; to the Left.  Being of the Left, when I would observe to those who hated Nixon (a very fashionable position) that he was doing what Humphrey would have done, there was general mockery.  But expansion of government under Nixon was considerable.  If he were alive -- you may be right about him.  Hoover certainly became much more conservative over time, seeing the consequences of programs he had proposed being expanded or extrapolated upon by FDR.  

I haven&#039;t looked at Kesler&#039;s book, but expect that I know how it goes.  Lilla&#039;s alternate history allows Democratic moderation to to shift Left by ignoring what it was previously.  The moderate Left of the Nixon era or of the Reagan era would be shocked at what happened to their party, even if it has been a natural progression.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl, isn&#8217;t Lilla funny?  I am not sure he is being disingenuous, though.  Reading the positive comments on his review, lots of liberals wish to see themselves like that.  Maybe it is the new liberal political fashion.  The comments also made me realize that my fellow faculty members would embrace his historical revision. They all think they are moderate and are all basically like European Social Democrats. The exception may be the part about Nixon.  I haven&#8217;t heard anyone say this about Nixon in years.  My memory of conservatives in the early 70s is of plenty of outrage and resentment over Nixon &#8220;pandering&#8221; to the Left.  Being of the Left, when I would observe to those who hated Nixon (a very fashionable position) that he was doing what Humphrey would have done, there was general mockery.  But expansion of government under Nixon was considerable.  If he were alive &#8212; you may be right about him.  Hoover certainly became much more conservative over time, seeing the consequences of programs he had proposed being expanded or extrapolated upon by FDR.  </p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t looked at Kesler&#8217;s book, but expect that I know how it goes.  Lilla&#8217;s alternate history allows Democratic moderation to to shift Left by ignoring what it was previously.  The moderate Left of the Nixon era or of the Reagan era would be shocked at what happened to their party, even if it has been a natural progression.</p>
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