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	<title>Comments on: Daniel Day-Lewis&#8217; (and Spielberg&#8217;s) LINCOLN</title>
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		<title>By: UP OP</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/11/18/daniel-day-lewis-and-spielbergs-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-30797</link>
		<dc:creator>UP OP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 05:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9644#comment-30797</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[----Spielberg continues to deliver &#039;on board&#039;
PC moral alibis and predictive programming
for the capstone world EUGENICS agenda.

Surely the ONLY urgently relevant aspect
of Lincoln to be dealing with ---for the FIRST
time, would be his quite possibly --FATAL--
diss of the Global USURY banking syndicate.
(CHECK OUT &#039;Money Masters documentary)

And BEWARE!  ---this would NOT be the 
first time Spielberg&#039;s collusion and timing 
was creepy.

BE AWARE! ---he released his guilt-trippy,
PC revisionist ode to China &#039;Empire of the Sun&#039;
during the heyday of handover to RED China
and on the eve of the 
-----------TIENNAMEN MASSACRE.

MAO still beams over Tiennamen

---Their flag is STILL ----RED

-------EUGENICS is STILL unfolding

And this is the ---&#039;mysteriously overlooked&#039;---
--------------60th Anniversary----------------
of the RED China, Globalism and EUGENICS
&#039;unfriendly&#039;

----------------KOREAN WAR-------------------]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8212;-Spielberg continues to deliver &#8216;on board&#8217;<br />
PC moral alibis and predictive programming<br />
for the capstone world EUGENICS agenda.</p>
<p>Surely the ONLY urgently relevant aspect<br />
of Lincoln to be dealing with &#8212;for the FIRST<br />
time, would be his quite possibly &#8211;FATAL&#8211;<br />
diss of the Global USURY banking syndicate.<br />
(CHECK OUT &#8216;Money Masters documentary)</p>
<p>And BEWARE!  &#8212;this would NOT be the<br />
first time Spielberg&#8217;s collusion and timing<br />
was creepy.</p>
<p>BE AWARE! &#8212;he released his guilt-trippy,<br />
PC revisionist ode to China &#8216;Empire of the Sun&#8217;<br />
during the heyday of handover to RED China<br />
and on the eve of the<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;TIENNAMEN MASSACRE.</p>
<p>MAO still beams over Tiennamen</p>
<p>&#8212;Their flag is STILL &#8212;-RED</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;-EUGENICS is STILL unfolding</p>
<p>And this is the &#8212;&#8217;mysteriously overlooked&#8217;&#8212;<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;60th Anniversary&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
of the RED China, Globalism and EUGENICS<br />
&#8216;unfriendly&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-KOREAN WAR&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
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		<title>By: paul seaton</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/11/18/daniel-day-lewis-and-spielbergs-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-30712</link>
		<dc:creator>paul seaton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, the only way the title could be appropriate would be if the (tacit) claim of the movie were that this was the decisive and most revealing chapter in his life.   Implausible on its face.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, the only way the title could be appropriate would be if the (tacit) claim of the movie were that this was the decisive and most revealing chapter in his life.   Implausible on its face.</p>
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		<title>By: CJ Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/11/18/daniel-day-lewis-and-spielbergs-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-30692</link>
		<dc:creator>CJ Wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 05:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9644#comment-30692</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[*meant to say &quot;scene&quot; and &quot;13th amendment&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*meant to say &#8220;scene&#8221; and &#8220;13th amendment&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: CJ Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/11/18/daniel-day-lewis-and-spielbergs-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-30691</link>
		<dc:creator>CJ Wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 05:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9644#comment-30691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The seen at the end with Mary and Abe was very interesting, I was struck by it too. When Mary said, &quot;I&#039;ll only be remembered for being crazy,&quot; my brother and I burst out laughing in the theater. In terms of the &quot;low art of politics&quot; aspect of Lincoln (which was certainly part of his political life), the movie did try to show him as in some ways above bribery, though in reality I think he came pretty close to that kind of thing at least while he was in Springfield. My main criticism: it was kind of arrogant to call it &quot;LINCOLN&quot; when this covered just one of many important (and perhaps more important) events in his life, the passage of the 14th amendment (how about defeating McClellan in the Election? or making the decision to write the Emancipation Proclamation? or going through all those generals before ending up with Grant to lead the army of the Potomac? or debating Stephen Douglas in the Illinois Senate race?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The seen at the end with Mary and Abe was very interesting, I was struck by it too. When Mary said, &#8220;I&#8217;ll only be remembered for being crazy,&#8221; my brother and I burst out laughing in the theater. In terms of the &#8220;low art of politics&#8221; aspect of Lincoln (which was certainly part of his political life), the movie did try to show him as in some ways above bribery, though in reality I think he came pretty close to that kind of thing at least while he was in Springfield. My main criticism: it was kind of arrogant to call it &#8220;LINCOLN&#8221; when this covered just one of many important (and perhaps more important) events in his life, the passage of the 14th amendment (how about defeating McClellan in the Election? or making the decision to write the Emancipation Proclamation? or going through all those generals before ending up with Grant to lead the army of the Potomac? or debating Stephen Douglas in the Illinois Senate race?)</p>
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		<title>By: CJ Wolfe</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/11/18/daniel-day-lewis-and-spielbergs-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-30690</link>
		<dc:creator>CJ Wolfe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 05:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9644#comment-30690</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just saw the movie tonight, I loved it! I agree with Paul&#039;s points about Lincoln&#039;s speech, his storytelling ability really was effectively expressed in this movie. That was also the best part of John Ford&#039;s &quot;Young Mr. Lincoln&quot; in my mind too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just saw the movie tonight, I loved it! I agree with Paul&#8217;s points about Lincoln&#8217;s speech, his storytelling ability really was effectively expressed in this movie. That was also the best part of John Ford&#8217;s &#8220;Young Mr. Lincoln&#8221; in my mind too.</p>
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		<title>By: paul seaton</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/11/18/daniel-day-lewis-and-spielbergs-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-30687</link>
		<dc:creator>paul seaton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 03:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[djf, thanks for the detective work.  You&#039;re right, it&#039;s an in-credible story.

But the puzzle remains:   given that it&#039;s apocryphal, K &amp; S still retained it, while transferring  it to the carriage-ride scene, which they prefaced with the clearly made-up comment about being out-for-a-ride on Good Friday.  In other words, both Christianity and &quot;Jerusalem,&quot; Jewish version, are brought together in the script, with Lincoln ignoring Christian convention and aspiring towards Davidic Jerusalem.   Coincidences?   A K-S jeu d&#039;esprit?   My fertile imagination?   None of the above?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>djf, thanks for the detective work.  You&#8217;re right, it&#8217;s an in-credible story.</p>
<p>But the puzzle remains:   given that it&#8217;s apocryphal, K &amp; S still retained it, while transferring  it to the carriage-ride scene, which they prefaced with the clearly made-up comment about being out-for-a-ride on Good Friday.  In other words, both Christianity and &#8220;Jerusalem,&#8221; Jewish version, are brought together in the script, with Lincoln ignoring Christian convention and aspiring towards Davidic Jerusalem.   Coincidences?   A K-S jeu d&#8217;esprit?   My fertile imagination?   None of the above?</p>
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		<title>By: djf</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/11/18/daniel-day-lewis-and-spielbergs-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-30677</link>
		<dc:creator>djf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 03:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9644#comment-30677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A quick google search revealed the source of the story that Lincoln told Mary at Ford&#039;s Theatre that he wanted to see Jerusalem.  Apparently, the Springfield minister who officiated at Lincoln&#039;s funeral wrote, in a notebook, that Mrs. Lincoln told him that the President said to her, before he was shot, that &quot;There is no place I would like to see so much as Jerusalem.&quot;

The story does not have the ring of truth to me.  After Lincoln&#039;s death, clergymen tended to create apocryphal stories and quotations that made him appear more conventionally religious than he really was.  He was of a religious nature, of course, and a close reader of the Bible, but he was not theologically orthodox.  From what I&#039;ve read about Lincoln, my sense of the man is that his first priority, after leaving office, would not have been a visit to the Holy Land.

From what I&#039;ve just said, it would be rather odd if the story was incorporated into the movie to make Lincoln appear more &quot;Jewish&quot; than Christian.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A quick google search revealed the source of the story that Lincoln told Mary at Ford&#8217;s Theatre that he wanted to see Jerusalem.  Apparently, the Springfield minister who officiated at Lincoln&#8217;s funeral wrote, in a notebook, that Mrs. Lincoln told him that the President said to her, before he was shot, that &#8220;There is no place I would like to see so much as Jerusalem.&#8221;</p>
<p>The story does not have the ring of truth to me.  After Lincoln&#8217;s death, clergymen tended to create apocryphal stories and quotations that made him appear more conventionally religious than he really was.  He was of a religious nature, of course, and a close reader of the Bible, but he was not theologically orthodox.  From what I&#8217;ve read about Lincoln, my sense of the man is that his first priority, after leaving office, would not have been a visit to the Holy Land.</p>
<p>From what I&#8217;ve just said, it would be rather odd if the story was incorporated into the movie to make Lincoln appear more &#8220;Jewish&#8221; than Christian.</p>
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		<title>By: paul seaton</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/11/18/daniel-day-lewis-and-spielbergs-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-30661</link>
		<dc:creator>paul seaton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 01:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9644#comment-30661</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Peter &amp; djf, we&#039;ll all have to await the answer concerning the trip to Jerusalem from experts.

I didn&#039;t see any obvious Jesus-scenes; the opening scene with the two sets of soldiers was more Hal before the battle of Agincourt than anything in Scripture.   As for his death-bed scene, when I saw it I didn&#039;t detect any particular Christian-allusion.  It was, however, quite obvious that the scene very very, very self-consciously framed, so I could have missed something.  But it seems a stretch, e.g.,  to liken the attendant cabinet to the disciples.   As for spending himself to the final penny of his strength, I too, would have aged a decade during the final year of the war, especially if I spent all night looking over pardons.  That seemed required by historical verisimilitude rather than symbolism of some sort.

One thing I noticed about the historical license that K &amp; P allowed themselves:   the chief topic of debate during the 13th Amendment debate was the constitutionality of the amendment itself; that was completely ignored.   Michael Zuckert&#039;s very good on this point (and on the 13th and 14th Amendments in general).

Lincoln the family man was counterpoised to Lincoln the politician.  &quot;Father Abraham&quot; didn&#039;t quite span the two, I thought.  In other words, the differences struck me more than any similarities.   In any event, there&#039;s a lot there to think about in connection with his relationships with his two sons and his wife.

I thought too many of the characters spoke too well.  We needed some dialect and class differences.

The most false note in the movie for me was during the aforementioned ride on GF, when Mary expressed her concern about how she&#039;d be viewed by history.   Really?   On the other hand, Lincoln certainly had views about America&#039;s place in human history.    They movie did not try to deal with his own ambition.

When I said &quot;the low arts of politics,&quot; I wasn&#039;t deriding them as immoral.   However, there was a clear suggestion that Lincoln, in crunch time, went beyond patronage-dangling.   This, of course, was counterbalanced by his wonderfully deft one-on-one soliciting of votes (not all of which worked).  But from the dialogue and action I gathered the consummate politician okayed bribery as well.   (BTW:  James Spader was wonderful as Bixby, although one could say the same thing about almost all of the actors.)

Among the best features of the flick:   the portrayal of Lincoln&#039;s speech:   as lover and raconteur of stories (with a point); a very laconic public speaker (&quot;And that&#039;s my speech.&quot;); possessing eutrapelia (i.e., well-adjusted to his interlocutors and situation; his capacity for drawing people out and thereby drawing them in (or vice versa).

Lots there.    Chime in!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Peter &amp; djf, we&#8217;ll all have to await the answer concerning the trip to Jerusalem from experts.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t see any obvious Jesus-scenes; the opening scene with the two sets of soldiers was more Hal before the battle of Agincourt than anything in Scripture.   As for his death-bed scene, when I saw it I didn&#8217;t detect any particular Christian-allusion.  It was, however, quite obvious that the scene very very, very self-consciously framed, so I could have missed something.  But it seems a stretch, e.g.,  to liken the attendant cabinet to the disciples.   As for spending himself to the final penny of his strength, I too, would have aged a decade during the final year of the war, especially if I spent all night looking over pardons.  That seemed required by historical verisimilitude rather than symbolism of some sort.</p>
<p>One thing I noticed about the historical license that K &amp; P allowed themselves:   the chief topic of debate during the 13th Amendment debate was the constitutionality of the amendment itself; that was completely ignored.   Michael Zuckert&#8217;s very good on this point (and on the 13th and 14th Amendments in general).</p>
<p>Lincoln the family man was counterpoised to Lincoln the politician.  &#8220;Father Abraham&#8221; didn&#8217;t quite span the two, I thought.  In other words, the differences struck me more than any similarities.   In any event, there&#8217;s a lot there to think about in connection with his relationships with his two sons and his wife.</p>
<p>I thought too many of the characters spoke too well.  We needed some dialect and class differences.</p>
<p>The most false note in the movie for me was during the aforementioned ride on GF, when Mary expressed her concern about how she&#8217;d be viewed by history.   Really?   On the other hand, Lincoln certainly had views about America&#8217;s place in human history.    They movie did not try to deal with his own ambition.</p>
<p>When I said &#8220;the low arts of politics,&#8221; I wasn&#8217;t deriding them as immoral.   However, there was a clear suggestion that Lincoln, in crunch time, went beyond patronage-dangling.   This, of course, was counterbalanced by his wonderfully deft one-on-one soliciting of votes (not all of which worked).  But from the dialogue and action I gathered the consummate politician okayed bribery as well.   (BTW:  James Spader was wonderful as Bixby, although one could say the same thing about almost all of the actors.)</p>
<p>Among the best features of the flick:   the portrayal of Lincoln&#8217;s speech:   as lover and raconteur of stories (with a point); a very laconic public speaker (&#8220;And that&#8217;s my speech.&#8221;); possessing eutrapelia (i.e., well-adjusted to his interlocutors and situation; his capacity for drawing people out and thereby drawing them in (or vice versa).</p>
<p>Lots there.    Chime in!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Lawler</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/11/18/daniel-day-lewis-and-spielbergs-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-30647</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Lawler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 21:35:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9644#comment-30647</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[djf, so i&#039;m obviously not a world-class Lincoln expert.  Could anyone give the source of the Jersualem story or assess it&#039;s significance?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>djf, so i&#8217;m obviously not a world-class Lincoln expert.  Could anyone give the source of the Jersualem story or assess it&#8217;s significance?</p>
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		<title>By: djf</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/11/18/daniel-day-lewis-and-spielbergs-lincoln/comment-page-1/#comment-30633</link>
		<dc:creator>djf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2012 19:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9644#comment-30633</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Years ago, back in the 70s, I remember having read (don&#039;t remember where) that Lincoln told Mary, just before he was shot, that he wanted to visit Jerusalem after leaving office.  The story sounds apocryphal, but it was not invented for the movie.

I have no doubt that Spielberg and Kushner are anti-Christian, but they are not much on Jewish identity, either, except to the extent that Judaism and Jewish identity are wholly identified with the Left, to the point of being submerged therein.  (This is the standard approach to Judaism and its sources and symbols in all non-Orthodox movements today; everything is reinterpreted as symbolizing Leftist values.)  A few years ago, Kushner offered the view that the founding of the State of Israel was a &quot;mistake.&quot;  Of course, this is not because he believes that salvation occurs on a &quot;spiritual&quot; plane, but because he believes that salvation occurs through the worldwide progress to a Leftist vision of &quot;justice,&quot; from which parochial Jewish nationalism (aka Zionism) is a distraction.

Spielberg and Kushner also collaborated on the Munich movie, which is notably hostile to Israel&#039;s program of rubbing out the terrorists responsible for the murder of the Israeli athletes.  Rather odd for Obama worshippers to deplore such tactics, but then, they made the movie before BHO became president and began targetted killings of people on the other side of the world who, supposedly, might kill some of us one day.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Years ago, back in the 70s, I remember having read (don&#8217;t remember where) that Lincoln told Mary, just before he was shot, that he wanted to visit Jerusalem after leaving office.  The story sounds apocryphal, but it was not invented for the movie.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that Spielberg and Kushner are anti-Christian, but they are not much on Jewish identity, either, except to the extent that Judaism and Jewish identity are wholly identified with the Left, to the point of being submerged therein.  (This is the standard approach to Judaism and its sources and symbols in all non-Orthodox movements today; everything is reinterpreted as symbolizing Leftist values.)  A few years ago, Kushner offered the view that the founding of the State of Israel was a &#8220;mistake.&#8221;  Of course, this is not because he believes that salvation occurs on a &#8220;spiritual&#8221; plane, but because he believes that salvation occurs through the worldwide progress to a Leftist vision of &#8220;justice,&#8221; from which parochial Jewish nationalism (aka Zionism) is a distraction.</p>
<p>Spielberg and Kushner also collaborated on the Munich movie, which is notably hostile to Israel&#8217;s program of rubbing out the terrorists responsible for the murder of the Israeli athletes.  Rather odd for Obama worshippers to deplore such tactics, but then, they made the movie before BHO became president and began targetted killings of people on the other side of the world who, supposedly, might kill some of us one day.</p>
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