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	<title>Comments on: The Republicans And Taxes: The Donor Class Doesn&#8217;t Seem To Be The Biggest Problem</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/02/the-republicans-and-taxes-the-donor-class-doesnt-seem-to-be-the-biggest-problem/</link>
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		<title>By: Travis</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/02/the-republicans-and-taxes-the-donor-class-doesnt-seem-to-be-the-biggest-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-31208</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2012 21:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9797#comment-31208</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, but you&#039;re talking to a member of the generation that grew up under President George W. Bush - he of massive tax cuts on the wealthy, exponentially-exploding &quot;defense&quot; and &quot;homeland security&quot; budgets, two unnecessary foreign wars and Medicare Part D, which is a multi-billion-dollar giveaway to Big Pharma.

You guys own all that. So don&#039;t talk to me about &quot;fiscal responsibility&quot; - I&#039;ve seen what the Republican Party&#039;s idea of that is - gutting social welfare programs, cutting taxes for the richest Americans (resulting in a rapidly-growing wealth disparity) and borrowing a trillion dollars to fight neoconservative wars in the Middle East.

That&#039;s what the Republican Party brand stands for, as far as I can tell from what your elected officials have actually done when in power during my lifetime.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but you&#8217;re talking to a member of the generation that grew up under President George W. Bush &#8211; he of massive tax cuts on the wealthy, exponentially-exploding &#8220;defense&#8221; and &#8220;homeland security&#8221; budgets, two unnecessary foreign wars and Medicare Part D, which is a multi-billion-dollar giveaway to Big Pharma.</p>
<p>You guys own all that. So don&#8217;t talk to me about &#8220;fiscal responsibility&#8221; &#8211; I&#8217;ve seen what the Republican Party&#8217;s idea of that is &#8211; gutting social welfare programs, cutting taxes for the richest Americans (resulting in a rapidly-growing wealth disparity) and borrowing a trillion dollars to fight neoconservative wars in the Middle East.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what the Republican Party brand stands for, as far as I can tell from what your elected officials have actually done when in power during my lifetime.</p>
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		<title>By: Pseudoplotinus</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/02/the-republicans-and-taxes-the-donor-class-doesnt-seem-to-be-the-biggest-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-31198</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudoplotinus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2012 16:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9797#comment-31198</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Travis,

Thanks for your comments. If I may I would just like to interject and suggest that you and Brian are actually arguing very different things.

I live in California and have witnessed what you describe but your characterization of California as somehow thriving economically is frankly bizarre to me. Citing Facebook, Google et al as support fails since those companies have employees in maybe the 10,000&#039;s at most, and even many of their operations are sourced out of state and in some cases country because California has distinguished itself as one of the most business unfriendly states in the union. Why do you suppose so much filming in the entertainment industry occurs in Canada? California&#039;s business climate has been effectively driving businesses out of the state in numbers that fail to be remotely matched by the prestigious blue chip corporations you mention. 

You&#039;re point about the political relevance of the Republican party is well taken but in a very important sense besides the point. A political party in Greece circa 2003 would have been relevant to its voters by continuing to support exactly those policies that have led Greece to the abyss it is presently in. For the Republicans to be relevant in the sense that you are advocating would be to support the American equivalent of those same policies.

It appears to me the democratic party has been very good at achieving &#039;political relevance&#039; by only bringing us closer to fiscal insolvency. It&#039;s unfortunate that the various demographic groups that you cite don&#039;t appreciate that by allowing their vote to be influenced by fear, they are only helping to ensure that the day of fiscal reckoning will come.

The best thing the Republican party can do for the country is to be the party of fiscal responsibility, make its case as best it can (preferably far better than it has made it up to now), and expect to meet significant challenge by those who insist on denying the fiscal reality playing itself out.

I realize you are of a different opinion but I think the discussion would benefit from a more reasoned engagement rather than talking passed one another.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Travis,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments. If I may I would just like to interject and suggest that you and Brian are actually arguing very different things.</p>
<p>I live in California and have witnessed what you describe but your characterization of California as somehow thriving economically is frankly bizarre to me. Citing Facebook, Google et al as support fails since those companies have employees in maybe the 10,000&#8242;s at most, and even many of their operations are sourced out of state and in some cases country because California has distinguished itself as one of the most business unfriendly states in the union. Why do you suppose so much filming in the entertainment industry occurs in Canada? California&#8217;s business climate has been effectively driving businesses out of the state in numbers that fail to be remotely matched by the prestigious blue chip corporations you mention. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re point about the political relevance of the Republican party is well taken but in a very important sense besides the point. A political party in Greece circa 2003 would have been relevant to its voters by continuing to support exactly those policies that have led Greece to the abyss it is presently in. For the Republicans to be relevant in the sense that you are advocating would be to support the American equivalent of those same policies.</p>
<p>It appears to me the democratic party has been very good at achieving &#8216;political relevance&#8217; by only bringing us closer to fiscal insolvency. It&#8217;s unfortunate that the various demographic groups that you cite don&#8217;t appreciate that by allowing their vote to be influenced by fear, they are only helping to ensure that the day of fiscal reckoning will come.</p>
<p>The best thing the Republican party can do for the country is to be the party of fiscal responsibility, make its case as best it can (preferably far better than it has made it up to now), and expect to meet significant challenge by those who insist on denying the fiscal reality playing itself out.</p>
<p>I realize you are of a different opinion but I think the discussion would benefit from a more reasoned engagement rather than talking passed one another.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Spiliakos</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/02/the-republicans-and-taxes-the-donor-class-doesnt-seem-to-be-the-biggest-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-31160</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Spiliakos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2012 04:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9797#comment-31160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Paul, I don&#039;t really have a lot of thoughts on that, but, on this issue, my sense is that the Republican political professionals are more running the only kinds of economic appeals they think will work with primary voters rather than trying to get money out of donors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, I don&#8217;t really have a lot of thoughts on that, but, on this issue, my sense is that the Republican political professionals are more running the only kinds of economic appeals they think will work with primary voters rather than trying to get money out of donors.</p>
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		<title>By: Travis</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/02/the-republicans-and-taxes-the-donor-class-doesnt-seem-to-be-the-biggest-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-31159</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2012 04:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9797#comment-31159</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nope, I&#039;m not ignorant - it&#039;s you who is choosing to selectively read data.

Notice that on those charts you linked to, the net outmigration of people from California to NV, AZ and TX that spiked up in the early and mid 2000s has now dropped back down to levels that are at or &lt;b&gt;below&lt;/b&gt; where they were at the turn of the century.

The real estate bubble helped drive high costs of living in California in the early part of the last decade. Many people headed for cheap land and booming suburbs in Phoenix and Las Vegas. Then the Arizona and Nevada economies crashed even harder than California&#039;s. They&#039;re not leaving now.

Beyond California, it&#039;s simply ignorant of you not to consider that the state&#039;s demographics &lt;b&gt;are&lt;/b&gt; indicative of the demographics of the future United States in terms of ethnic diversity. California is majority-nonwhite now and America is on its way to becoming a majority-nonwhite nation well within my lifetime. There is no denying this. Short of a massive influx of European immigration, it is essentially unstoppable.

And the numbers are equally clear electorally: the GOP has next to zero appeal within non-white populations. Every single minority group voted Democratic by huge margins - 71% of Latinos and 93% African-Americans. Romney won 59% of whites, but that made up 88% of all his votes.

So, I return to the question: does the GOP want to have electoral relevance in the future? If so, it needs to consider how to build bridges to the diverse 21st century electorate. Otherwise, nationally the GOP is going to end up much like the California state GOP - a powerless rump.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope, I&#8217;m not ignorant &#8211; it&#8217;s you who is choosing to selectively read data.</p>
<p>Notice that on those charts you linked to, the net outmigration of people from California to NV, AZ and TX that spiked up in the early and mid 2000s has now dropped back down to levels that are at or <b>below</b> where they were at the turn of the century.</p>
<p>The real estate bubble helped drive high costs of living in California in the early part of the last decade. Many people headed for cheap land and booming suburbs in Phoenix and Las Vegas. Then the Arizona and Nevada economies crashed even harder than California&#8217;s. They&#8217;re not leaving now.</p>
<p>Beyond California, it&#8217;s simply ignorant of you not to consider that the state&#8217;s demographics <b>are</b> indicative of the demographics of the future United States in terms of ethnic diversity. California is majority-nonwhite now and America is on its way to becoming a majority-nonwhite nation well within my lifetime. There is no denying this. Short of a massive influx of European immigration, it is essentially unstoppable.</p>
<p>And the numbers are equally clear electorally: the GOP has next to zero appeal within non-white populations. Every single minority group voted Democratic by huge margins &#8211; 71% of Latinos and 93% African-Americans. Romney won 59% of whites, but that made up 88% of all his votes.</p>
<p>So, I return to the question: does the GOP want to have electoral relevance in the future? If so, it needs to consider how to build bridges to the diverse 21st century electorate. Otherwise, nationally the GOP is going to end up much like the California state GOP &#8211; a powerless rump.</p>
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		<title>By: Republicans And Taxes II: The Case of Herman Cain &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/02/the-republicans-and-taxes-the-donor-class-doesnt-seem-to-be-the-biggest-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-31158</link>
		<dc:creator>Republicans And Taxes II: The Case of Herman Cain &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2012 04:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9797#comment-31158</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Tyler Cowen Will Wilkinson Wunderkammer      Amazon.com Widgets                          &#171; Previous&#160;&#160;&#124;Home&#124;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;&#160;  Republicans And [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tyler Cowen Will Wilkinson Wunderkammer      Amazon.com Widgets                          &laquo; Previous&nbsp;&nbsp;|Home|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;  Republicans And [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/02/the-republicans-and-taxes-the-donor-class-doesnt-seem-to-be-the-biggest-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-31152</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2012 01:24:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9797#comment-31152</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow.  Your ignorance is astounding, and actually pretty sad.  

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/middle-class-california-dream-what-is-middle-class-for-california-incomes-real-estate-prices-migration/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is a bit of reading for you to catch up on.  This stuff isn&#039;t new, and isn&#039;t a secret.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  Your ignorance is astounding, and actually pretty sad.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/middle-class-california-dream-what-is-middle-class-for-california-incomes-real-estate-prices-migration/" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is a bit of reading for you to catch up on.  This stuff isn&#8217;t new, and isn&#8217;t a secret.</p>
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		<title>By: Travis</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/02/the-republicans-and-taxes-the-donor-class-doesnt-seem-to-be-the-biggest-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-31134</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 20:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9797#comment-31134</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Travis: I’m trying to make some sense of your post. Are you actually denying that people are fleeing CA in droves?&quot;

Yes, actually, I&#039;m denying it because it&#039;s patently false. California&#039;s population is actually growing (slightly) faster than the national average.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html

I&#039;m also denying it because the headquarters and primary employment centers of the information economy are in California - Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, etc. etc. etc. are all based in the San Francisco Bay Area, perhaps the most liberal metropolitan area in America. The back of every Apple product is engraved &quot;Designed by Apple in California.&quot; Obviously, these companies see value in their location.

And sure, toss around slurs about LGBT Americans all you like. Keep digging that hole deeper for all I care. If you want to be electorally and socially irrelevant to an entire generation of Americans, who am I to stop you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Travis: I’m trying to make some sense of your post. Are you actually denying that people are fleeing CA in droves?&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, actually, I&#8217;m denying it because it&#8217;s patently false. California&#8217;s population is actually growing (slightly) faster than the national average.</p>
<p><a href="http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html" rel="nofollow">http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m also denying it because the headquarters and primary employment centers of the information economy are in California &#8211; Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, etc. etc. etc. are all based in the San Francisco Bay Area, perhaps the most liberal metropolitan area in America. The back of every Apple product is engraved &#8220;Designed by Apple in California.&#8221; Obviously, these companies see value in their location.</p>
<p>And sure, toss around slurs about LGBT Americans all you like. Keep digging that hole deeper for all I care. If you want to be electorally and socially irrelevant to an entire generation of Americans, who am I to stop you?</p>
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		<title>By: paul seaton</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/02/the-republicans-and-taxes-the-donor-class-doesnt-seem-to-be-the-biggest-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-31125</link>
		<dc:creator>paul seaton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 16:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9797#comment-31125</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Important post, Pete.   The charge that the GOP is the &quot;oligarchic/oligarchs&quot; party is well worth bringing to the light of day, as well as considering in the light of the relevant facts.  If informs John M&#039;s post over at FPR, to take one example of a thousand.  I suspect it&#039;s the AC&#039;s official view.   It seems a commonplace ripe for ... investigation.  Please continue your characteristic sober and sobering work of comparing and contrasting claims and relevant facts  ... .   BTW:   &quot;oligarchy&quot; is not a term of opprobrium in my lexicon.  Pierre Manent has said that he has made two revisions to his Tocqueville-inspired earlier interpretation of liberal democracy:  recognizing its intrinsic connection to the national political form, and placing it in the classics&#039; insistence that every political society has an oligarchic-demos structure.  Bertrand de Jouvenel, in turn, argued that the real task is to educate the oligarch (as well as the demos).   Hence, in part, my interest in the claim/reality of Republicans as the party of the oligarchs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Important post, Pete.   The charge that the GOP is the &#8220;oligarchic/oligarchs&#8221; party is well worth bringing to the light of day, as well as considering in the light of the relevant facts.  If informs John M&#8217;s post over at FPR, to take one example of a thousand.  I suspect it&#8217;s the AC&#8217;s official view.   It seems a commonplace ripe for &#8230; investigation.  Please continue your characteristic sober and sobering work of comparing and contrasting claims and relevant facts  &#8230; .   BTW:   &#8220;oligarchy&#8221; is not a term of opprobrium in my lexicon.  Pierre Manent has said that he has made two revisions to his Tocqueville-inspired earlier interpretation of liberal democracy:  recognizing its intrinsic connection to the national political form, and placing it in the classics&#8217; insistence that every political society has an oligarchic-demos structure.  Bertrand de Jouvenel, in turn, argued that the real task is to educate the oligarch (as well as the demos).   Hence, in part, my interest in the claim/reality of Republicans as the party of the oligarchs.</p>
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		<title>By: djf</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/02/the-republicans-and-taxes-the-donor-class-doesnt-seem-to-be-the-biggest-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-31122</link>
		<dc:creator>djf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 15:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9797#comment-31122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks, Travis, for your fascinating, original insights.  And, as California shows, the Democrats are capable of bringing on fiscal, economic and social catastrophe all by themselves, without any help from the feckless Republicans.  Good work, guys and gals - oh, and transexuals, too - wouldn&#039;t want to alienate anyone by being non-inclusive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Travis, for your fascinating, original insights.  And, as California shows, the Democrats are capable of bringing on fiscal, economic and social catastrophe all by themselves, without any help from the feckless Republicans.  Good work, guys and gals &#8211; oh, and transexuals, too &#8211; wouldn&#8217;t want to alienate anyone by being non-inclusive.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/02/the-republicans-and-taxes-the-donor-class-doesnt-seem-to-be-the-biggest-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-31121</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2012 15:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9797#comment-31121</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Travis:  I&#039;m trying to make some sense of your post.  Are you actually denying that people are fleeing CA in droves?

[Your points about the sad joke that is the CA GOP are completely irrelevant to anything I said.]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Travis:  I&#8217;m trying to make some sense of your post.  Are you actually denying that people are fleeing CA in droves?</p>
<p>[Your points about the sad joke that is the CA GOP are completely irrelevant to anything I said.]</p>
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