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	<title>Comments on: Random Whines</title>
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	<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/09/random-whines/</link>
	<description>A First Things Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Pseudoplotinus</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/09/random-whines/comment-page-1/#comment-31491</link>
		<dc:creator>Pseudoplotinus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 21:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9866#comment-31491</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Carl, agreed with your general assessment of the psychological point to Rigby, my recommendation of the song had more to do with its aesthetic effectiveness, in the sense that one might pose Triumph of the Will as aesthetically effective, however repulsive its objective. &quot;Imagine&quot; is an even more explicit example.

Stephen P&#039;s original challenge was to identify any song of the Beatles that compares to Gershwin or Porter. Peter added the additional criteria of psychological depth later in the thread. Personally I find the phrase &quot;pyschological depth&quot; to be a contradiction in terms and so mute on matters of music altogether.

Just my two cents.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl, agreed with your general assessment of the psychological point to Rigby, my recommendation of the song had more to do with its aesthetic effectiveness, in the sense that one might pose Triumph of the Will as aesthetically effective, however repulsive its objective. &#8220;Imagine&#8221; is an even more explicit example.</p>
<p>Stephen P&#8217;s original challenge was to identify any song of the Beatles that compares to Gershwin or Porter. Peter added the additional criteria of psychological depth later in the thread. Personally I find the phrase &#8220;pyschological depth&#8221; to be a contradiction in terms and so mute on matters of music altogether.</p>
<p>Just my two cents.</p>
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		<title>By: TUESDAY AFTERNOON GOD &#38; CAESAR EDITION &#124; Big Pulpit</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/09/random-whines/comment-page-1/#comment-31487</link>
		<dc:creator>TUESDAY AFTERNOON GOD &#38; CAESAR EDITION &#124; Big Pulpit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 19:07:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9866#comment-31487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Random Whines &#8211; Peter Lawler, PoMoCon [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Random Whines &#8211; Peter Lawler, PoMoCon [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Eric Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/09/random-whines/comment-page-1/#comment-31480</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Eric Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 15:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9866#comment-31480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oops, the Burke thing should go with the other Beatle-related thread, the one where Jim calls me the house aesthete.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, the Burke thing should go with the other Beatle-related thread, the one where Jim calls me the house aesthete.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Eric Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/09/random-whines/comment-page-1/#comment-31479</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Eric Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9866#comment-31479</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And hey, does anyone know if Burke could dance well?  

I&#039;d be more surprised if the answer were &quot;no,&quot; than if it were &quot;yes.&quot;  Portraits of him when younger show a handsome fellow, for one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And hey, does anyone know if Burke could dance well?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d be more surprised if the answer were &#8220;no,&#8221; than if it were &#8220;yes.&#8221;  Portraits of him when younger show a handsome fellow, for one.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Eric Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/09/random-whines/comment-page-1/#comment-31476</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Eric Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 14:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9866#comment-31476</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, Peter, &quot;Eleanor Rigby&quot; proudly exhibits its giving you MORE psychological depth, but it turns out to be of the wrong (reductive) kind.  

As I explained in Songbook #31:  http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2011/12/15/carls-rock-songbook-31-the-beatles-eleanor-rigby/

 And in underlined in #32: http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2011/12/16/carls-rock-songbook-32-the-zombies-a-rose-for-emily/ 

So maybe the formula-following RESTRAINT of the American Songbook songs actually demonstrates the greater psychological depth--i.e., &quot;don&#039;t pretend to take a song into the depths unless there&#039;s a way of really doing it.&quot;  And with a 3-minute song, usually, there isn&#039;t.  

Out of the 30 or so actual songs I&#039;ve analyzed in the Songbook, I think &quot;Eleanor Rigby&quot; was the one I showed the most outright hostility to.  If you really listen to it, guys, I trust the revulsion will grow in your soul as well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Peter, &#8220;Eleanor Rigby&#8221; proudly exhibits its giving you MORE psychological depth, but it turns out to be of the wrong (reductive) kind.  </p>
<p>As I explained in Songbook #31:  <a href="http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2011/12/15/carls-rock-songbook-31-the-beatles-eleanor-rigby/" rel="nofollow">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2011/12/15/carls-rock-songbook-31-the-beatles-eleanor-rigby/</a></p>
<p> And in underlined in #32: <a href="http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2011/12/16/carls-rock-songbook-32-the-zombies-a-rose-for-emily/" rel="nofollow">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2011/12/16/carls-rock-songbook-32-the-zombies-a-rose-for-emily/</a> </p>
<p>So maybe the formula-following RESTRAINT of the American Songbook songs actually demonstrates the greater psychological depth&#8211;i.e., &#8220;don&#8217;t pretend to take a song into the depths unless there&#8217;s a way of really doing it.&#8221;  And with a 3-minute song, usually, there isn&#8217;t.  </p>
<p>Out of the 30 or so actual songs I&#8217;ve analyzed in the Songbook, I think &#8220;Eleanor Rigby&#8221; was the one I showed the most outright hostility to.  If you really listen to it, guys, I trust the revulsion will grow in your soul as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Some Praise for Mitt Romney And Other Thoughts » Postmodern Conservative &#8230; - Rise of the Right</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/09/random-whines/comment-page-1/#comment-31462</link>
		<dc:creator>Some Praise for Mitt Romney And Other Thoughts » Postmodern Conservative &#8230; - Rise of the Right</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 06:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9866#comment-31462</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Peter Lawler asked, but the conclusions are [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Peter Lawler asked, but the conclusions are [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Some Praise for Mitt Romney And Other Thoughts &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/09/random-whines/comment-page-1/#comment-31450</link>
		<dc:creator>Some Praise for Mitt Romney And Other Thoughts &#187; Postmodern Conservative &#124; A First Things Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2012 00:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9866#comment-31450</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Peter Lawler asked, but the conclusions are [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Peter Lawler asked, but the conclusions are [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Lawler</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/09/random-whines/comment-page-1/#comment-31439</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Lawler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 21:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9866#comment-31439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, I did enjoy JERSEY BOYS.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I did enjoy JERSEY BOYS.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph Hancock</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/09/random-whines/comment-page-1/#comment-31438</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Hancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 21:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9866#comment-31438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[P.S.  Have you seen any of the PBS program on the recent history of musical theatre?  (Maybe it&#039;s old, but I just noticed it -- pledge drive season, no doubt.)  The cultural rupture of the late sixties is manifest: the gulf between West Side Story and Cabaret... and then all the corruption follows: Hair, lots of art as transgression, then followed by a kind of attempt to return to real human emotion, but what is left is largely grandiose sentimentality.  Something like The King and I is incomprehensible without a norm of chastity.  More generally, as a wise (if judeao-pagan) man once said: you can&#039;t make sense of humanity without sacred restraints.  Or of the beautiful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.  Have you seen any of the PBS program on the recent history of musical theatre?  (Maybe it&#8217;s old, but I just noticed it &#8212; pledge drive season, no doubt.)  The cultural rupture of the late sixties is manifest: the gulf between West Side Story and Cabaret&#8230; and then all the corruption follows: Hair, lots of art as transgression, then followed by a kind of attempt to return to real human emotion, but what is left is largely grandiose sentimentality.  Something like The King and I is incomprehensible without a norm of chastity.  More generally, as a wise (if judeao-pagan) man once said: you can&#8217;t make sense of humanity without sacred restraints.  Or of the beautiful.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralph Hancock</title>
		<link>http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/2012/12/09/random-whines/comment-page-1/#comment-31437</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralph Hancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2012 21:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/postmodernconservative/?p=9866#comment-31437</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You can&#039;t be &quot;Here, There &amp; Everywhere&quot; for a sweet, simple, memorable, even elegant song.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can&#8217;t be &#8220;Here, There &#038; Everywhere&#8221; for a sweet, simple, memorable, even elegant song.</p>
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